Using an aftermarket head unit with preamp outputs and a mini (Clarion on JL) 4x50 RMS amp mounted behind the dash. I run the RCA patch cables from the head unit to the amp which sends the audio signal and still allows for balance and fade control.
Since the amp will be behind the dash I can wire the speaker wires directly from the amp to the aftermarket wiring harness and not even hook up the speaker wires from the head unit to the aftermarket harness.
This would leave me 50 watts to each speaker. Can I wire the head unit (22 watts RMS) and the amp to the aftermarket harness giving me 72 watts RMS to the speakers or is this a bad idea?

As for door speakers factory has 6x9s but I am very limited in 6x9 speaker options because they have to be pretty shallow because the window will hit the magnet when rolled down on most 6x9s.
Though pretty much any 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 will fit utilizing an adapter plate.

I am looking at getting JL C2 6 1/2
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...0X.html?tp=105&avf=Y

JL C1 6x9
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...0x.html?tp=105&avf=Y


The 6x9s seem to be lower end speakers would I be loosing much by going with a higher end 6 1/2.

Focal makes a Toyota specific 6x9 but they are some heavy coin and not sure I would gain much for the extra cost.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...OY.html?tp=105&avf=Y

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Black92LX,

If you don't have a tin ear and enjoy music enough to know, and hear, why MP3 sucks, go with the Focal.

I had a set of Diamond Audios in the front and rear doors of a 99 Durango paired with a pair of Cerwin-Vega 12s all powered by a couple old school Rockford amps. Best sounding ride ever.

High quality sound makes a ride a whole lot easier.

Personally, regarding the other question, mount the amp where it can breath and stay cool then use 18 or 16 ga wire. Lamp cord is a good option for speaker wire if cost is a factor.

No, you should not try to wire your speaker level outputs from your radio together with the amplifier outputs. I can't swear that this would blow anything up, because I've never seen it tried, but in general amplifiers don't work that way. Most likely you would just get horrible sound with a lot of noise, but you could in fact burn up one or the other or both pieces of equipment.

As to speakers, if you plan on adding subwoofers, then 6 1/2" speakers are fine. The 6X9s will definitely give you noticeably better bottom end, and I would definitely do 6X9s if you aren't adding subs anytime soon.

You didn't state the vehicle, but you shouldn't have too much problem fitting 6X9s. And they are generally not deeper than 6 1/2s, so if you don't have the depth for one you won't have the depth for the other. Perhaps the 6 1/2 adapter plates you are looking at add some depth, but if your door panels will still fit with those, you would be able to use a spacer ring with the same added depth to keep 6X9s.

I would suggest you look at the Alpine type R speakers, as they use a better magnet material, which allows the design to be pretty small. They are excellent sounding speakers. I sell JL and Alpine products, and I wouldn't hesitate to use the Alpine 6X9 R types:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...9/Alpine-SPR-69.html

I'd put the nicest 6 1/2" coaxial speakers with adapters that your depth and budget allows, if you're having problems finding 6x9s that fit, but you'll sacrifice some bass.

quote:

Can I wire the head unit (22 watts RMS) and the amp to the aftermarket harness giving me 72 watts RMS to the speakers?

Definitely not.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
If you don't have a tin ear and enjoy music enough to know, and hear, why MP3 sucks, go with the Focal.

I had a set of Diamond Audios in the front and rear doors of a 99 Durango paired with a pair of Cerwin-Vega 12s all powered by a couple old school Rockford amps. Best sounding ride ever.

High quality sound makes a ride a whole lot easier.

Personally, regarding the other question, mount the amp where it can breath and stay cool then use 18 or 16 ga wire. Lamp cord is a good option for speaker wire if cost is a factor.

I have my entire audio library in FLAC format and the headunit is FLAC capable. So I guess I'll spend a little more on the Focals since they fit and are 6x9s.

I'll likely add a sub later on but maybe the Focals will give enough low end.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Can I wire the head unit (22 watts RMS) and the amp to the aftermarket harness giving me 72 watts RMS to the speakers?

Definitely not.

I figured as much. When one uses a line converter to add a aftermarket amp to a factory radio does the line converter cut out the power from the factory head unit, or does it add the wattage together?

Honestlou I am just going by what Crutchfield says will fit and not fit.
I would presume there is something wonky as Focal makes a vehicle specific speaker for the Sienna and other Toyotas.

If you can audition Focals locally or any better speakers you should. I like Focal a lot but they can be bright to me and a little tiring sometimes. I'd do 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 instead of the 6x9's. You might also consider components, there may even be a factory location you can sneak the tweeters into.

I wouldn't waste your money on that class D mini amp you referred to in your OP. It is not better audio-wise than amp in your radio. They are both class D which are known for efficient (size wise) at the cost distortion at the high end. Of that 50W RMS, you would probably only get 35 usable watts. I would recommend you get a quality 2 channel amp capable of mixed mono. (Class A/B are the most common and reasonably priced.) This can drive both your front door speakers and simultaneously a mono subwoofer which you can add a later date along with a simple 1st or 2nd order passive corssover circuit.

Another option is to get a 4 channel amp with can be bridged if you cannot find a quality 2 ch. mix/mono capable amp. You can bridge each pair of channels to drive the front speakers. This will give you more power and a higher slew factor to control your speakers. At a later date when you want to add an amp, you can un-bridge the front pair to drive the front speakers and leave the rear pair bridged to drive the sub. This 4 ch. type of amp usually always come with a hi-pass/lo-pass crossover circuit built in.

I will go preamp route for all the signal connections between the headunit, pre-amp (if there is one) & amp. I would avoid using line level converters since this is not optimum and introduces distortion.

No, you cannot sum the outputs from multiple amps to drive the same speaker.

As for the speakers, Focal are quality, but there are different level of model lines IIRC. Also, circular speakers are inherently better audio-wise than oval speakers. I recommend the 6.5 over the 6x9 if you have a subwoofer (or plan to add a sub at a later date). 6x9 are great to give you just a little more bass at the cost of clarity.

P.S. I was a MECP certified installer back in the heyday of mobile audio in the late 80's and early 90's.

A line out converter simply reduces the output
From the head unit so as not to over drive the amplifier.

Im no audio professional, but ive studied enough to
Be certain that you cant power one speaker with two sources.

The closest ive seen to that is for one to use the head unit to power a certain number of speakers, and the external amp to power additional ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Can I wire the head unit (22 watts RMS) and the amp to the aftermarket harness giving me 72 watts RMS to the speakers or is this a bad idea?

Absolutely NOT. It will blow both amplifiers.

A little mini Amp (probably) offers no appreciable difference from the one built into the head unit. A regular sized amp is that size for a reason, you just can't get much real and clean power out of a tiny package. I'd skip it and use the head unit power or find a place to stuff a regular sized / real amp. The difference (even when both are marked 50w/ch) will be large. As a first step, especially without a sub also, I'd just skip the amp altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
A little mini Amp (probably) offers no appreciable difference from the one built into the head unit. A regular sized amp is that size for a reason, you just can't get much real and clean power out of a tiny package. I'd skip it and use the head unit power or find a place to stuff a regular sized / real amp. The difference (even when both are marked 50w/ch) will be large. As a first step, especially without a sub also, I'd just skip the amp altogether.

They seem to be quite popular and have pretty high reviews on both Amazon and Crutchfield at least the Clarion and Alpine do.
I think they can also be ran as a 2 channel at 100 watts. Just run the fronts at 100 watts may be a pretty noticeable change.

Black,

2006 Chevy Silverado quad cab.

I run a Sony 7" touchscreen DVD player with bluetooth, with an Alpine 35w rms x 4 class D amp to my 4 door speakers. The 35w rms amp is twice as loud as sony's (rated) 22w rms x 4, and 4 or 5 times louder than the stock head unit.

BUT... This is for mids and highs. If I sent the lows to the Alpine, it would distort badly. (class D.)

My front speakers are Polk Audio 6.5, and separate 1" tweeters, with crossover boxes on each pair. The head unit itself cuts out the lows to the amp, the crossovers send the highs to the tweeters, and mid / mid lows to the 6.5s. Even with the lows cut out, it's still more bass than the stock head unit and speakers.

For rear door speakers, I use Kenwood 6.5s with built in 1" tweeters. They have bass blocker capacitors on them, and the tweeters only get the higher frequencies. BUT... Since my head unit will send the full signal to the rear speakers, I have the rear speakers level set maybe 1/2 output of the front. This keeps distortion to a minimum, and enhances the front staging of the music. Just adds a little fill.

To round off the system, I have a 10" under the seat amp/sub hooked up to the head unit subwoofer output. It's rated at 100 rms / 200 peak, but no. I'm prob lucky to get 50 distortion free watts out of it. BUT... It's set to only about 1/3 level or so, (For no distortion) which MIXES in with the rest of the music mids and highs, and even at this low level, is still 5X or more the bass of the stock system.

So...
Sony AV unit, not using speaker outputs at all, only line outs. $300

Alpine 4 x 35rms class D amp, (smaller than a carton of ciggs) Front output 3/4, rear output maybe half. $135

Polk audio 6.5 inch separates with 1" tweeters and crossovers. Rated at 75 watts RMS, prob putting in 20 to 25 watts. $110

Kenwood 6.5 2 ways. Putting in 15 watts? bass blockers. $40

Sound Ordnance under seat amp / 10" sub. Rated at 100w rms, but reality, maybe 50 watts without distortion. Comes with remote boost control for front dash, really nice to dial amount of hit in. $150

Very cheap system overall, but I can turn head unit up to 46 or 47 (Out of 50) with no distortion, (That I can hear anyway, lol) Bass hard enough to still shake rear view mirror, BUT not over power the mids / highs, and loud enough to clearly hear the music with all four windows down going down the highway.

For such relatively small power, it shocks most people that listens to it, and most say it's plenty loud. It is set up for sound CLARITY and a front stage presence, not ear hurt and glass shaking bass.

Lastly, NOTHING of my system is visible except for the head unit of course, and even that looks stock really. All installed myself. All can be bought through Crutchfield. (Cheaper if you buy elsewhere though.)

I am pretty damn good at audio, but not a certified expert at all.

1. Always use circular speakers. It's important enough that I'd recommend getting a bracket to fit a smaller circular speaker instead of replacing it with a larger, similar sized speaker that was installed by the manufacturer.

2. If it's not too much trouble I'd rerun all the speaker wire with the proper gauge and shielding for your decided power output. I know people who have had problems with sound quality, interference, etc. using existing factory wiring. Proper wire that's rerun eliminates those types of issues and ensures clean, shielded power to your speakers.

3. For speakers, try out the ones you're interested in and pick the ones that sound the best for your type of music. JL, Focal, Alpine, Polk Audio, etc. are all quality brands and to me, each can sound better depending on your musical preferences.

4. Never wire your headunit into an amplified speaker line. Most headunits' peak and RMS power levels are not to be trusted and I've found that they're the leading cause of blowing aftermarket speakers, no matter how good the quality/power handling of the speaker. Speakers thrive with an available, constant flow of power. Headunits are underpowered, unstable and will distort when the volume is cranked up.

5. The amp you're considering is 1000x better than any headunit output. RMS power is key and as a member of the sound quality fan club, 50 watts RMS is more than enough for most vehicles.

6. Tuning a system with the right crossovers, filters, etc. is more important than power.

In one of my cars I run an Alpine CDE-HD149BT headunit, Alpine 5.25" Type R SPR-50 2 ways in the front, JL Audio 4" TR400-CXi in the rear, Alpine MRV-F340 4x55 watt RMS interior amp, Xtant A6001 600 watt RMS @ 2ohm and dual 12" Xtant X124 subs wired in parallel. I have it tuned so that I can max the volume on the headunit and your ears would blow before any of those speakers would. I'd recommend setting your gains the same way when tuning your system. Good luck and please post the final results, I'm curious to see what you end up getting.

Prior to this thread I had never heard round speakers are the best though it makes sense as probably 95% of speakers are round.
What is the science/reason behind that??

I am planning for my setup to include:
Kenwood Excelon DDX794 head unit
JL C2 6 1/2 speakers for the front doors (reading more about the Alpine RS65 as well)
Kicker 6 1/2 for the rears (forget the model but I already have them as they are a super extra shallow speaker as Toyota put these speakers in a awful place and nothing fits without cutting sheet metal) Here is a link showing the install and how there is about zero room to work with
http://www.siennachat.com/foru...-step-step-pics.html
The Alpine 45x4 Power Pack amp seems to get the best reviews

I am looking at a 10" powered Cerwin Vega amp as it appears it will fit nicely in the 8th seat cubby in the rear storage compartment.

I am still deciding on what camera for the front bumper. Also trying to decide if I do a drop down monitor in the back or if I do 2 headrest monitors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Black92LX,

Anyone know the difference in these 2 Apline Speakers aside from $70???

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...S65.html?tp=95&avf=Y

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...ne-SPR-60.html?avf=Y

Upon using the compare page they look to be the same. Only difference I see in the pic is the grill and maybe 1/16" depth difference.

^ I'm not familiar with those two sets by Alpine.

Personally, regardless of brand, I put most car speakers in one of two categories...

Good enough, for which I'd spend about $100/pr on.

And very good, which would almost always be north of $300/pr (or set if it's separates).

Just about everything that's under around $200/pr or so, and not a piece of crap, is very, very similar (in quality, not sound), and most of them are made in (or their parts are made in) the same few factories, whether by Peerless or whomever else is popular at present.

You really need to hear them first to tell. Sometimes, inexplicably, a $79/pr from brand A will sound better than a $149/pr from brand B. Some brands are notoriously flat in response, others are bassy, others are tinny, and most others are generally unremarkable.

Almost nothing of substance has changed regarding speaker design and manufacturing in the last 30+ years, and a used set of brand C that was $150/pr in 1990 sounds like and as good as ones that are $75+ nowadays. Very little is gained by an extra $50 here or there, and most of the myriad of choices is centered around confusion driving upsales...

Take a CD loaded with songs you like and are very familiar with to your local stores, pick out a pair you like, and be done. Everything you're looking at is fairly average/similar. I buy tons of things online, but speakers is something I'd never buy without hearing first.

Even ones that are only around $100/pr.

And this comes from more than a decade deep in the car audio industry (including sponsorships from most majors at the time (Alpine, Sony, Clarion, MTX, Fosgate, Phoenix Gold, Orion, Precision Power, etc), on top of 20+ years after that in various pro audio and other related contexts.

Most of the specs are useless and unreliable nonsense.

Just listen to some and trust your ears.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Anyone know the difference in these 2 Apline Speakers aside from $70???

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...S65.html?tp=95&avf=Y

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_...ne-SPR-60.html?avf=Y

Upon using the compare page they look to be the same. Only difference I see in the pic is the grill and maybe 1/16" depth difference.

The cheaper one is likely last year's model. The ideal time to buy!! There's likely no difference to your ears, but your wallet will be $70 heavier!!

Just so you know where I am coming from, I have used JL's TR570 CXi, TR690 TXi, and XR650 CSi speakers. I currently have a JL XD300/1 pushing a JL 12W6v2 in my Mazda CX-7, which did 10 years service in my old Mazda Protege.

The XR650 CSi's served me for 10 years in my Protege, and they were banging until the day I traded it in.

The TR570's I have used in two builds, pushed by the HU, and they sounded great. I replaced one of the sets with Alpine Type S, and I have been less happy with those. Not that they are bad, just not as well-rounded as the JL's.

I think bang-for-buck, JL's low end stuff is some of the best there is.

Don't be afraid of that tiny amp being able to push those speakers. Almost all amps are Class D today, full range or mono. Modern Class D amps are nothing like the older ones. The technology has come a LONG way. If you saw the size of my XD300/1, and then heard the bass coming out of my 12W6v2, you'd be shocked.

I have those Type S's I mentioned above running off Kenwood HU power in my work truck, and I can get them to screaming with no distortion. Modern car audio is much better than it used to be, which is sad, because it's dying out pretty rapidly.

When a speaker really gets going the response/flex of the speaker can't get any more universal than a circular design. With oval shaped speakers it takes the far edges longer to move than the narrow edges and as a result sound quality and durability aren't the same. I've heard some great 6x9 speakers but all of them weren't as crisp and clean as their circular counterparts.

As for the Alpine speakers I concur with g8rforester in that it's likely an older model they're about to discontinue. I have the 5.25" version of the SPR-60 and can't imagine too many speakers that sound better without paying exponentially more.

Another thing to consider is the difference between component/2 way speakers. I stopped using component speakers because they're more expensive than 2 ways, the install usually requires drilling holes in places that require replacement of the interior door panel should one return to stock or install a 2 way and why would someone "downgrade" to a 2 way speaker? I'll tell ya: because you'll kill your hearing so much faster with a tweeter blasting into the cabin vs. having it come from the lower door. As someone who has constant high pitch ringing in my ears, I blame the component speakers (and myself for putting together such an loud, awesome system and blasting it) for that.

In my last post I mentioned that I tuned the power/speakers to max out at the volume on the headunit. I did it for two reasons: First, so I wouldn't blow the speakers. Secondly, after a while loud music doesn't seem as loud because of all the damage the ears are taking and it's easy to keep cranking it if the dial has a few more notches to go. By maxing it out if you don't think it's loud and your passengers are complaining about the noise, at least the damage to the ears is (somewhat) limited.


Sounds like you made some great choices. Be sure to show us the installed speakers and let us know how much you love it!

Thanks for the info folks.
I ended up snagging a set of the Alpines from Crutchfield. They had a scratch and dent set for $115 and I had a rewards credit from when I outfitted my truck with a new head unit, speakers, and backup camera at the beginning of the summer.
Crutchfield provides the standard install gear and free shipping so for $100 after my rewards credit I got the speakers, 6x9 to 6.5 mounting plate adapters, speaker adapter harness, and master build sheet.
Scratch and dent hold the full warranty and Crutchfield has a 60 day return Policy.
So I figure it is worth a shot. The front doors I'll have the speakers in and out in 10 minutes so no big deal if I don't like them and have to send them back.

I'll have to run them for a few week on the factory head unit.

When I get the head unit and amp I will be running wires to the rear for extra monitors and for the subwoofer so I have to take out the rear side panels of the van.
I'll have to take out all 3 car seats and reinstall which is a gigantic pain. I have a recall fix for the van sceheduled and they have to come out for that work anyway so I am waiting to do it all at once so I don't have to take them out and reinstall multiple times.

I am looking forward to the Head unit.
The Kenwood DDX794 has some pretty slick feature when paired with the idatalink link system.
I retain all my factory steering wheel controls and Auxilery inputs it also uses the factory backup camera but the head unit has the capability to add parking lines which the factory camera does not have and I believe that using idatalink that it adds the parking lines that move with the wheel for even better backing assistance.
It also connects to the ODBII data port and one can display gauges, individual tire pressure monitoring where as the warning on the dash currently does not specify which is low.

I'll add a monitor in the rear for the boys for movies.

Plus it is capable of 2 Bluetooth phone connections and 5 audio connections.

The current Toyota Entune system is crap and when 2 Bluetooth devices are on it throws it all out of whack.

My factory unit was just replaced under warranty so is only a couple months old so I hope to sell it for a few hundred bucks according to warranty receipt it would cost $1800 to replace.