Look what we did to Libya and Syria previously under obama and hillary? And you're going to question what Trump is doing today?
How many people died in the Arab Spring and ensuing chaos?
Fuck the talking heads- If I saw a news report that stated the sun was out and the sky was blue= I'd have to go outside to verify it for myself.
The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
|Just because you can, |
doesn't mean you should
Leaving American troops there with severe limits on what they can do and no clear goal has been tried for the last few decades. We've lost thousands of lives and somewhere between hundreds of billions to a trillion or more spent. Nobody there is truly our friend, we just share common enemies at times.
Time to try another option. We don't understand the many problems they have with each other much less the solutions.
The Turks and Iran are mortal enemies and share the same neighborhood. Let them sort it out.
Keep in mind, the 8 years before that, what should've been a unconventional fight in the mountains of Afghanistan, turned into a giant brass party with participation ribbons for all in fully catered, massive bases, meanwhile a new word filtered thru the halls of the Pentagon: transformationalism. Every branch is digging out of that boondoggle.
Each administration for the last 30-years has their hands in this, the only difference with this one is the chief told them to get tangible results or, we're getting out. ISIS is crushed, we're out. Sorry Kurds, you guys were awesome but, we can't be the one's continually solving the neighborhood's problems, Asad was on the ropes and you couldn't figure-out how to carve yourself a piece of the pie.
This is not 1945. ISIS is like HIV/AIDs, you never "crush it", you just control it. It will always be there. Think your are "cured" and in a few months or years you will be dealing with it again. The war on Terrorism never really ends, that is what sucks but it is the reality of today.
Mattis knew what needed to be done and the long term commitment that it requires. Trump does not. Now, we can listen to men that have served and fought or not. You all decide.
You can have a civil discussion, and disagree, without making personal insults toward Trump.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Agreed, edited. :-)
Cool. I'm interested in your opinion. I'm out of my element on this topic and I'd rather get contrary opinions from those on our side.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
|Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie|
My opinion is simple. If we're going to continue to have these endless military interventions overseas, then it's time for Congress to be involved. Let them debate and vote on it. Let's see them own it and then face their constituents with their decisions.
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
"My guns are always loaded."
What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
It would be one thing this if this was a battle we can win...and actually pay for. It is nether. The Ottomans should have stayed out of WWI if they were so concerned with the consequences. I support this move because any strategic loss with respect to the Kurds at this point seems mute. We've been strategic military and trading partners with Turkey longer than this "current" dispute has been ongoing.
They have the tools for peace, they need to exercise the willpower. Hopefully the POTUS can leverage our trade relationship to resolve the conflict.
In U.S. Military History, a formal "Declaration of War" was not presented to Congress during the Vietnam "War". I was just a kid, but in growing up and lightly studying the era and history, everyone can agree that it turned in to a total shit storm (Captain Obvious).
Having said that, why did President Bush NOT seek a formal Declaration of War against Iraq or whatever other country he deemed responsible for the attacks on 11-SEP 2001? Why has the leadership avoided that formality for the past 50+ years?
Lastly, would passing a formal Declaration of War "ease" things on our military as in CLEARLY define the ROE's and what is done with subversive combatants, i.e., the same exact scenario faced by our troops in Vietnam...cool Asian friend by day; stealthy, cunning Charlie SOB by night. In the ME, we have cool Arab buddy by day; brutal IED-planting, head-sawing off jihadist MFer by night.
"If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24
ISIS, like the Taliban, is merely a violent-puritanical version of the dominant beliefs in their respective regions. The splits are more nuanced however, given the perspective that ISIS had control of a number of cities....we've crushed them pretty hard. Will they pop-up again, likely; will something else take its place, most assuredly. Should we be the ones to come and bail-out the region, not any more. We've been there far too long with little results. Time to back the bags.
There's good folks there and deep history, unfortunately, when the politics change in our country, it makes overseas adventures that much more confusing and contradictory. Mattis is a good man with articulate reasoning, only his arrival as SECDEF was the wrong time.
|fugitive from reality|
Or the Hmong.
'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.
|bigger government |
= smaller citizen
You're implying, falsely, that POTUS is unilaterally making these decision, and not listening or consulting with people that have served and/or fought.
You might be surprised to know that there is a HUGE swath of current and retired military personnel that want us OUT of that theater.
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”—H.L. Mencken
You didn't edit jack shit. You're just confirming my beliefs about you and your profession. You heard me
Leave it to someone like you to be ungrateful for all that President Trump has done for this nation. You'd rather have Hillary Clinton, and that's not a question or a supposition. You'd rather have Hillary Clinton.
I've heard both sides of the argument and have come the conclusion that only the hawks love endless wars and endless occupations. They will make any excuses to get America be the police everywhere in the world. It ain't possible or feasible. There are times and places to get involved, but, as far as I'm concerned, Syria is done. Get our troops the fuck home. Not one more life lost.
|Frangas non Flectes|
100% this. We've had people dying over there for most of the last 20 years, and it's gotten us what, exactly? I know a number of guys who went either to Iraq, Afghanistan, or some of them, both. Not a one of them thinks we have any business over there or that it's anything but a waste of time, money, and lives. The cultural barriers are too high to bother, it's not worth it.
At this point, Syria can have a bow tied on it. So shut it down, bring everyone and everything home; let's not do what we've been doing since WWII and leave a shit-ton of weapons and materiel to arm future combatants.
The idiots on the news radio are breathless over "abandoning our Kurdish allies" and keep re-reading Trump's tweet in tones dripping with mockery. If our "Kurdish allies" are truly important and Trump is super wrong about this, can't Congress take some sort of action? Oh I forgot, we're busy impeaching.
|His diet consists of black|
coffee, and sarcasm.
The Kurds really want to carve out chunks of Turkey, Syria and Iraq, plus maybe Iran, to make a "Kurdistan" out of, which none of those countries are going to stand for. Do they really love us, or are they in it to this end and just see us as a means to it?
I am in favor of pretty much anything PDJT does. He's my President and I plan on that being a true statement till early 2025.
I happen to agree that these wars have gone on far too long and virtually nothing that will last has been accomplished.
Bring our GIs home. The Kurds? They just gotta stand on their own or find a new ally to fight with them.
They’ve been fighting over there for hundreds of years. They will be doing so in another hundred.
It sucks to abandon an ally but t the same time the EU nd others need to carry on the fights. Like Trump said, we aren’t the world’s police force.
|Equal Opportunity Mocker|
Not in favor of abandoning an ally (Kurds, in this context), but if they really have even daydreams of forming their own nation, their fight for that hasn't even begun. "Kurdistan" will take all the juju the Kurds have, and we are under no obligation to be there to supply them supplies nor our sons. Let them sort it out, we gave them a head start and a tank of gas.
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
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