In general, but specifically the first oil change. The owner's manual/maintenance schedule does not list oil change until 10,000 miles/12 months. I know I am old school, and slow to catch up with modern technology, but that seems a long time to wait to service a new engine. If I remember correctly, it was 300 miles for the first oil change, followed at 1000 miles for the second, on my '85 4x4.

The concern was, and for me, is, small metal bits and other debris from the break-in of a new engine circulating and causing damage; hence the notion of early oil changes to get rid of that stuff. Is that no longer a concern with modern engines, technology, lubricants, circulating systems, and so forth? Do they treat engines differently at the factory to negate the need for old-style break-in?

Other guidelines center mostly on driving technique and avoidance of extremes of speed, acceleration, braking, and the like, for xxx miles.

Any thoughts for mechanically-minded members?

TIA.

Listen to the guys who built it and warranty it. Ie, follow the maintenance guidelines published by the manufacturer.

I’m not a technician, but this is my opinion.

Your oil filter should catch the metal particles, but I still like to change the oil on a fresh engine early. Manufacturers may be extending the time/mileage between oil changes to decrease their reported cost of ownership. I have gone by a manufacturer’s recommended service interval of 6,000 miles between oil changes. Upon doing my own oil change, I was of the opinion the oil was too thin and dark.

I just purchased a new Subaru BRZ. My first oil change will be at 3,000 miles instead of the recommended 6,000 miles. Changing the oil more frequently than recommended cannot hurt the vehicle.

As far as driving, I would not drive like an animal. Many mechanics believe an engine should be operated throughout its normal rpm range so the cam(s) wear evenly. Therefore, I drive my new vehicles normally with the occasional run through a couple gears close to redline.

All in all, though, your Camry is built so much better than your old Toyota truck. I expect it would be fine even if you drove like an animal and did not change the oil but every 10,000 miles.

I would change it at 3000 miles, then every 7000 miles. Lots of newer cars can benefit from shortened oil change intervals.

For those saying, follow the manufacturer’s guidelines, how is an early oil change going to hurt a car?

Additionally, consider this. My Ram 1500 had a ZF 8HP70 transmission. Ram said the transmission had lifetime fluid and should never be changed. In fact, Ram dealerships will not change the fluid even if you ask them to. However, ZF recommends every 60,000 miles.

Why is that? Likely: 1) Cost of ownership. The fluid change takes quit a bit of labor time. 2) Ram had a 100,000 powertrain warranty at the time. They do not want someone getting a fluid flush at 90,000 miles, possibly damaging the transmission, then trying to warranty the transmission. 3) Ram does not want their dealerships responsible for folks waiting until 150,000 miles to ask for a fluid change then blaming any issues on the dealership. 4) This goes back to cost of ownership. The fluid change on this transmission is a pain. You have to wait until the transmission is at the correct temperature and go through a shifting sequence to determine the correct fluid level. Absent doing this properly, the fluid level changes drastically. This leads to significant downtime and the vehicle sitting on a lift burning labor time. Owners would be ticked off paying $800 for a fluid change. The fluid itself is very expensive. The filter is also built into the pan, so you have to replace the pan. At dealer prices, parts and fluid are over $400.

My point is, manufacturers sometimes make recommendations that are not necessarily ideal. More frequent oil changes are going to do nothing but prolong the life of the engine.

On a brand new engine I always change the oil at 1000 miles. Even with modern engines you will see small metal flakes in the old oil from the first oil change that the filter won’t catch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53IYXsxZDfo

When I purchased my 2012 Camry, I did the first oil change around 3,000 miles for my own peace of mind with the Toyota branded synthetic oil and filter. Subsequent oil changes have been at each 10,000 mile mark. I'm approaching the 130K mark now. While I can't say for certain that the early oil change helped, it certainly didn't hurt


If you do it yourself, be sure to get a new crush washer for the oil drain plug. I put on a Fumoto oil drain valve at the time too.

We just bought a 2021 Corolla. I don't have the manual with me, but the dealer told us the first scheduled maintenance which includes an oil/filter change will be at 5,000 miles. I added the Corolla to my Toyota.com account, and it also shows the first oil change at 5,000 miles with another oil/filter change at 10,000 miles. I can't remember, but I think my Tundra's first oil change was also at 5,000 miles.

Thanks for early replies. Additional thoughts welcome.

@Heavyd, there are plenty of things we can do that “don’t hurt”. Doesn’t mean it’s not a waste of time and money. It’s an argument of diminishing returns.

There are a million things we can get anal about thinking we are doing more or better than what is recommended and some people find some comfort in that. For 99% of owners, the manufacturer’s recommendations will keep the vehicle running well past their ownership.

Does the owners manual show a Severe Service section?

I'd be inclined to follow it over the regular service recommendation.
.

Yes, it does.

While it certainly won't hurt anything to do an early oil change, it's not necessary. Tolerances, coatings, oils, and metals have evolved considerably in engines since 20 years ago.

Following the manufacturers change intervals and the engine should outlast the car.

As for judging what condition the oil is in by simply looking at it without having an oil sample analyzed at a lab, that's impossible unless it's so extremely dirty (something you shouldn't see at the normal change interval in this type of car.)

quote:

Originally posted by bobandmikako:
We just bought a 2021 Corolla. I don't have the manual with me, but the dealer told us the first scheduled maintenance which includes an oil/filter change will be at 5,000 miles. I added the Corolla to my Toyota.com account, and it also shows the first oil change at 5,000 miles with another oil/filter change at 10,000 miles. I can't remember, but I think my Tundra's first oil change was also at 5,000 miles.

Dealer will tell you the first *service* back to them will be 5,000 miles but I doubt they'll change the oil because that isn't called for until 10,000 miles. All they'll do is what's called for which is:
Check Installation Of Driver's Floor Mat
Rotate Tires
Inspect Wiper Blades
Inspect /Adjust All Fluid Levels1
Visually Inspect Brake Linings/Drums And Brake Pads/Discs
Add Toyota EFI Tank Additive or equivalent (if in Hawaii or Puerto Rico)



The oil change, at least for my Corolla, is not called for until 10,000 miles.... unless any of the following are met then it's 5,000 miles. So if you're taking it back to a dealer at 5K and want the oil changed, be sure to tell them to do so because you drive under some of the following:

Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading.
Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32 F/ 0 C.
Driving on dirt/dusty/muddy roads or on roads with melted snow.
Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for long distances such as police, taxi or door to door delivery service.


Personally I went against what the US manual calls for and used what Toyota spec's in other countries for this same engine; 5W-30 synthetic and changed it at 2,500. After that every 5,000 because I only put about 8,000 per year on it.

I keep my vehicles a long time. I get an oil change at 1,000 miles. Yeah, it may be anal, it may be overkill but I believe it contributes to engine life so it is worth the money for my to have that peace of mind.

Harley requires a 1K service then every 5K similar theory of clearing out anything that gets in the oil, but really, if that's a problem you'd think they'd say change it at 100 or 500 why leave it in the oil for 1000 miles..

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Harley requires a 1K service then every 5K similar theory of clearing out anything that gets in the oil, but really, if that's a problem you'd think they'd say change it at 100 or 500 why leave it in the oil for 1000 miles..

Because the engine is still breaking in.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Harley requires a 1K service then every 5K similar theory of clearing out anything that gets in the oil, but really, if that's a problem you'd think they'd say change it at 100 or 500 why leave it in the oil for 1000 miles..

Because the engine is still breaking in.

New engines don't leave a lot of metals. I do A LOT of engine start ups on brand new diesels from 500hp- 2600HP engines. Standard operating procedure is after engine has been idling an hour or slow speed......hook up laptop, go out in the ocean, run every 200 rpms for 5 minutes time, all of the way to wide open throttle (in gear/100% load). Most all of the engine manufacturers call for the first oil change at the normal 250 hours. Some owners insist on doing it at 50 hours, we always pull oil samples, and NOTHING noteworthy of any wear metal is ever in them and oil is pristine. Oil samples are always taken at every oil change on these engines from CAT, Cummins, MAN, MTU etc. and nothing noteworthy unless they sit and sit and sit without being started. We're talking about $75k-$1 million diesel engines in yachts. Modern gas automotive engines shouldn't be any different. As for Harley, who knows, they seem to always be behind the curve as far as technology goes.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
@Heavyd, there are plenty of things we can do that “don’t hurt”. Doesn’t mean it’s not a waste of time and money. It’s an argument of diminishing returns.

Agreed. I haven't done early oil changes on any of my last three new Toyotas.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

quote:

Originally posted by bobandmikako:
We just bought a 2021 Corolla. I don't have the manual with me, but the dealer told us the first scheduled maintenance which includes an oil/filter change will be at 5,000 miles. I added the Corolla to my Toyota.com account, and it also shows the first oil change at 5,000 miles with another oil/filter change at 10,000 miles. I can't remember, but I think my Tundra's first oil change was also at 5,000 miles.

Dealer will tell you the first *service* back to them will be 5,000 miles but I doubt they'll change the oil because that isn't called for until 10,000 miles. All they'll do is what's called for which is:
Check Installation Of Driver's Floor Mat
Rotate Tires
Inspect Wiper Blades
Inspect /Adjust All Fluid Levels1
Visually Inspect Brake Linings/Drums And Brake Pads/Discs
Add Toyota EFI Tank Additive or equivalent (if in Hawaii or Puerto Rico)



The oil change, at least for my Corolla, is not called for until 10,000 miles.... unless any of the following are met then it's 5,000 miles. So if you're taking it back to a dealer at 5K and want the oil changed, be sure to tell them to do so because you drive under some of the following:

Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading.
Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32 F/ 0 C.
Driving on dirt/dusty/muddy roads or on roads with melted snow.
Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for long distances such as police, taxi or door to door delivery service.


Personally I went against what the US manual calls for and used what Toyota spec's in other countries for this same engine; 5W-30 synthetic and changed it at 2,500. After that every 5,000 because I only put about 8,000 per year on it.

It's strange that there doesn't seem to be any consistency. This is what the local dealer says the 5,000 mile maintenance will include, regardless of driving conditions:

Rotate Tires
Inspect/Adjust All Fluid Levels
Check Installation of Driver's Floor Mat
Visually Inspect Brake Linings/Drums/ and Brake Pads/Discs
Inspect Wiper Blades
Torque Nuts and Bolts on Chassis and Body
Inspect Ball Joints and Dust Covers
Inspect Steering Linkage
Inspect Engine Air Filter
Inspect Drive Shaft Boots
Replace Engine Oil and Filter

The 10,000 mile service shows the same thing. I guess I'll find out in a few months.