Hi all, this thread is a piggyback on my thread about "when to call it quits at work".. And please tell me if I'm being retarded and should just pack it up and get a normal job.

a former employer of mine that owns a large manufacturing company calls me this morning, he is 57 and I am 32, and he sort of looks at me like a son, so his intentions are as pure as I think they get in a business deal. We talked for an hour or so about life, my work, his work, etc. He's a newer gun enthusiast, but dove in head first and is hooked. I told him I was going to start looking for a new job soon, and he suggested I come back to work for him. He suggested we could get an FFL for manufacturing and start a new business making gun "stuff", assuming I come back to work for him with the exotic car stuff. We could split the gun venture and I could have free reign over his equipment from 5pm to 9am.. This go round I will absolutely have an operating agreement drawn up. He told me he's been thinking about how he is perfectly set up for this, but doesn't know the first thing about gun manufacturing, and doesn't have the time even if he DID know about gun manufacturing.

I'm thinking the HAAS machines would be good for milling slides, billet lower receivers, etc. The welding lathe could make Titanium suppressors, I'm still thinking on the rest of the equipment.

The Pro's:
- 15 minute round trip commute vs. my current 3 hour round trip commute
- a Guaranteed paycheck
- gets me into the gun industry which is where I really want to be
- Lets me do what I'm good at without having to focus on stuff like accounting, etc.
- Cheap machine guns!
- He's willing to invest more money into specific equipment for this

Cons:
- The work environment there wasn't the best
- it'll be a lot of work (which never scared me)
- I don't know the first thing about the gun business

The list of equipment he has is pretty extensive (and expensive), and is as follows:

- Stratasys- Dimension Elite 3D Printer - 16 x 14 x 16 in
- Flow Mach 4 Series 5 axis Waterjet with a 6x12 foot bed
- Unison Breeze mandrel tube bender (the same one Boeing and Lockeed Martin have/use)
- 150 ton Bystronic Xpert CNC press brake
- HAAS VF2 Vertical Machining center
- HAAS ST-20 CNC Turning center
- CNC Plasma cutter
- CNC Laser engraver
- Robotic Tig Welding Lathe
- Romer CMM 7-Axis digitizing arm
- 15 welding stations with Miller Dynasty Tig welding machines

Well, at this time the AR market is saturated,so I would be wary of that. Other platforms have established manufacturers (Wilson, Ed Brown, Lone Wolf, etc.) that you would have to compete against. I guess it would be a struggle to find your niche. If you can come up with a unique product, you will do ok, maybe even great. Barrel contouring might be a good place to start or threading for silencers, or even silencers themselves. Lots to think about. Good luck to you.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: greco,

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he is perfectly set up for this, but doesn't know the first thing about gun manufacturing....

Cons:......
- I don't know the first thing about the gun business

What could go wrong?

If this is approached as a hobby on the side and the car business is self-sustaining to you this sounds like a fun way to find out, with backing from another.

If you're relying on the gun business piece of this, I think you're fooling yourself by confusing a fun dream with a practical reality.

In my opinion this sounds very interesting.

You get a solid work footing and the opportunity to explore a new business on the side.

Plus you will have the chance work with a more experienced business owner who can coach and mentor you. It's very possible that even though your foray into the 'gun business' may fail, the business and management lessons you can learn from your new mentor will be the keys to future success.

The surest way to make a small fortune in the gun business these days is to start out with a large one.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

he is perfectly set up for this, but doesn't know the first thing about gun manufacturing....

Cons:......
- I don't know the first thing about the gun business

What could go wrong?

haha touche, I do know a good about guns, and have a fair share of "industry" friends, so that would be a help for sure.. and HE knows business, just not the gun business and at the end of the day, a business is a business.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
[QUOTE]he is perfectly set up for this, but doesn't know the first thing about gun manufacturing....

If this is approached as a hobby on the side and the car business is self-sustaining to you this sounds like a fun way to find out, with backing from another.

Exactly that. Let the car side of things sustain me while I work on this, if it doesn't work out then I'll still do the car stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:
The surest way to make a small fortune in the gun business these days is to start out with a large one.

He has the "large fortune" part covered!

quote:

Originally posted by greco:
Well, at this time the AR market is saturated,so I would be wary of that. Other platforms have established manufacturers (Wilson, Ed Brown, Lone Wolf, etc.) that you would have to compete against. I guess it would a struggle to find your niche. If you can come up with a unique product, you will do ok, maybe even great. Barrel contouring might be a good place to start or threading for silencers, or even silencers themselves. Lots to think about. Good luck to you.

I have a glock carbon fiber barrel (think proof research) that I think I would likely push as the first product, we've put 10k+ rounds through it without a hiccup.. or maybe find some unique way to make a suppressor that's different than what is currently being offered?

ya, nice thread awhile back about how the gun guys are now struggling after an 8 year bull-market. No way.

You haven't considered the logistics in your plan. So where will you sell the guns/parts? Where will you market them? Now you need a website if it's online, money for gunshow booths, a way to take payments, insurance in case someone gun blows up, etc.... Who's paying for all that?

Additionally, when can you hit an economy of scale with your source material to make it worth your time by mass producing? Wait, mass produce in a bear market? Ok go super niche, and have people weigh your 1200 AR/barrel/supressor vs a 450 one etc...

Theres a lot that would go into this that would be a bad idea for the gun business. Reading your other thread the job alone may be worth it and just do the gun stuff as a personal hobby.

A favorite quote that Jallen shared here awhile back.

Are you going to give up getting an agreement written up for the current job and also give up getting paid? You're doing yourself and your family a disservice if you're not going to get something for your work in the past two years.

While it’d be fun, I’d be concerned about the long term profitability. As already said the industry is pretty full. If you had the niche item already planned and thought out, it might be different. I’d think there ought to be money to be made in muzzle devices, suppressors, lowers, custom actions, even barrels; but there’s already companies in those areas that have a head start on you.

I'd talk to Bruce Gray for some insight. I bet he has some insight on the fire arms industry.

I'd have to ask- If you didn't succeed in a market you're familiar with moving to another market might not be the best strategy. Especially when the new market is already saturated.

Personally I've found the high end 1% market is always there- the people come and go but there's people in it.

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And please tell me if I'm being retarded and should just pack it up and get a normal job.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

And please tell me if I'm being retarded and should just pack it up and get a normal job.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree.

NOW, if you can make a normal weekly paycheck that pays the bills AND take the shop out of being a toxic environment AND want to screw around making gun stuff as a hobby that MAY become a real business. Then I would do it. But also working 5pm-2am will also take away from your family.

In all honestly I think you need to put your family first, be the provider (not just your wife), and be there with your time for the family and work a job that pays the bills.

You need to do a hard edged business case for entering anything related to the gun business now, and using recent and real numbers. I think the chances of any such business penciling out right now are pretty bad.

I don't think that about a third of that equipment - for example, the press brake and mandrel tubing bender - has much utility in gun or gun parts manufacturing.

Better idea:

Put money into the exotics.

He wants you. Write up deal to make you partner in exotics. Start second shift and maybe separate value stream in exotics.

Kill it and make a ton.

Do what you know well...

Just a thought, but maybe higher quality gun safes. You should talk to our resident safe guy what he thinks the market will support and be profitable.

Here's the name "Para Safe, the kick ass safe".

If you want to make your passion into something you hate, make it your job.



That being said, I'd think suppressors are where it's at on a dollar earned per parts and labor involved. They are relatively uncomplicated devices that fetch a premium price.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
I don't think that about a third of that equipment - for example, the press brake and mandrel tubing bender - has much utility in gun or gun parts manufacturing.

The brake could possibly be used for forming sheet metal receivers.

Right now, I think niche manufacturing is probably the only business case for a new firearm business, like reproductions of historic military weapons or an (relatively) affordable clean-sheet belt-fed rifle. Or maybe acquiring the products of one-man businesses (like what some members here do for side money) and consolidating them.

No matter what you decide, Good Luck.