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What I wonder is what it really means for Brexit. Will they leave with no deal or is this a back-handed way of getting out of Brexit?


Link

British Prime Minister Theresa May suffered a crushing defeat Tuesday as Parliament overwhelmingly rejected her Brexit deal with the European Union -- a defeat that places the future of Brexit in doubt and intensified calls for May’s ouster via a general election.

May’s withdrawal agreement was voted down 432-202, the largest defeat for a prime minister in the history of the House of Commons. May was expected to lose, but the extent by which she lost was significant and marked a devastating blow for her leadership and her ability to go back to Brussels and negotiate further concessions.

May acknowledged that her deal was rejected by Parliament, but added: "Tonight's vote tells us nothing about what it does support."

Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the opposition Labour Party, immediately tabled a motion of no-confidence in the government, which is likely to be debated on Wednesday. Should that pass, it could eventually lead to a snap general election if another government is not formed within two weeks.

"Her governing principle of delay and denial has reached the end of the line," Corbyn told the Commons after the vote. "She cannot seriously believe that after two years of failure she is capable of negotiating a good deal for the people of this country. The most important issue facing us is that the government has lost the confidence of this House and this country."

What happens next is unclear. Britain is scheduled to leave the bloc at the end of March, currently with no deal -- something that many MPs on both sides of Parliament, including May, have said would lead to significant disruption. Some MPs, particularly those who voted to remain in the E.U. in 2016, have called for Britain to delay its departure or hold a second referendum.

May is also likely to face significant pressure from her Conservative Party to step aside, particularly considering the margin of her defeat, which would normally lead to a prime minister’s resignation. But May, having survived a vote of no-confidence from her party in December, is protected from being ousted from her own party until December 2019. It would seem unlikely that many, if any, Tory MPs would back Corbyn's motion of no-confidence, and the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) -- May's coalition allies -- said that the party would back her in the Wednesday vote.

BRITISH MP DELAYS GIVING BIRTH BY TWO DAYS TO VOTE AGAINST BREXIT DEAL

May has faced criticism from both "Remainers" and "Brexiteers" over her handling of the deal. The anger from the “Brexiteer” wing focuses primarily on the inclusion of a “backstop” -- a safety net that keeps Britain in a customs union with the E.U. in case no trade deal is made after March. It is intended to avoid a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, but Brexiteers have pointed to the lack of a unilateral exit mechanism as evidence that the backstop will lead to Britain never actually leaving.

Former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, who resigned over May's negotiations last year, called on May to avoid any "parliamentary plottery and jiggerypokery" and to go to Brussels and demand the backstop be removed.

"Take out, excise, surgically remove the backstop, OK?" he told Sky News. "That's the problem, that's the lobster pot, that's the trap that keeps us locked in the customs union and means we have this terrible Hobson's choice between, as it were, sacrificing Northern Ireland or remaining subject to the E.U. without having any say in the E.U."

Former U.K. Independence Party leader and Fox News contributor Nigel Farage called the vote "a catastrophic failure of leadership" by [May.]

"If she has any sense of honor she will resign," he tweeted.

On the Remain side, Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable said in a statement that the vote marked "the beginning of the end of Brexit."

"With Parliament in deadlock, it is time to go back to the public," he said, a reference to calls for a second referendum.

Ahead of the vote, May and her allies launched a pushback against withering criticism of her handling of negotations, and of the deal. Warning about the dangers to Brexit and to the country of voting down May’s deal, Attorney General Geoffrey Cox asked: “Do we opt for order or do we choose chaos?'
British PM Theresa May makes her final pitch for Brexit deal ahead of parliament voteVideo

To his own Tory party, particularly the Brexit wing, he turned to the benches and asked: “What are you playing at? What are you doing?”

Environment Secretary Michael Gove, who is a May supporter and also campaigned for Brexit in 2016, sought to rally Brexiteers to May’s side, using a "Game of Thrones" reference to warn that the damage would be significant.

“I think if we don't vote for the deal tonight, in the words of Jon Snow, 'winter is coming,’” he said on BBC's Radio 4, “I think if we don’t for vote the deal tonight, I think we will do damage to our democracy, by saying to people that we are not going to implement Brexit,” he added.

A defeat also not only makes May's future unclear, but also Brexit's. Britain is now set to leave without a deal with the E.U., something that Remainers and some business groups have said would lead to chaos from an economic downturn to a lack of access to vital medicines as Britain’s ports clog up.

Those on the right of the Tory Party have downplayed the risks of no deal, noting that Britain would revert to normal World Trade Organization terms and the benefits of leaving the E.U. would outweigh any difficulties.

“Cutting the costs of imports from outside the E.U., making our economy more competitive, is going to be extremely beneficial,” Jacob Rees Mogg told the BBC. “All the gloomsters, the prophets of doom, are the people who prophesied doom before and they’ve been wrong in all their earlier forecasts.”





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repudiate
/rɪˈpjud·iˌeɪt/

to refuse to accept or obey something or someone;

to refuse to accept something or someone as true, good, or reasonable:

Smile





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Wow.....May was crushed

Not sure how this will play out but it's going to be messy.
 
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I read this as a good thing; a clean break (for the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) with no strings attached. My understanding is that the deal with the EU would have really watered down Brexit by forcing (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) to essentially pay an “early withdrawal” penalty and making Brexit toothless. It’s a way the EU is trying to dictate to (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) how to run their country.

I think (hope?) this is their way to tell the EU to “pack sand;” we’re not playing by your stinking rules; we’re outta here, so stuff it!

Tell me where I’m wrong, please?
 
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Sounds like a clean break would be better than worse. The people who want a deal are the ones profiting from the existing deal.




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May's probably gone tomorrow.

She should of had a copy of that book, Art of the Deal or something......


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They still exit in the spring, right? Maybe they will learn the true meaning of..."hold my beer..watch this". Smile



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half-genius,
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quote:
Originally posted by bcereuss:
I read this as a good thing; a clean break (for the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) with no strings attached. My understanding is that the deal with the EU would have really watered down Brexit by forcing (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) to essentially pay an “early withdrawal” penalty and making Brexit toothless. It’s a way the EU is trying to dictate to (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) how to run their country.

I think (hope?) this is their way to tell the EU to “pack sand;” we’re not playing by your stinking rules; we’re outta here, so stuff it!

Tell me where I’m wrong, please?


The UK really IS a united kingdom - England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Great Britian is just the biggest island - England, Scotland and Wales.

Those folks who voted to leave are trying to 'throw off the yoke of petty tyranny' - sound familiar?
 
Posts: 11305 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Several of the articles I've read on this state that without a deal the UK will "crash" out of the EU without any trade deals in place. They then follow this up with statements about how the UK will collapse. No food or fuel, blood in the streets, etc. How realistic is this scenario?

I understand there will be some bumpy times of uncertainty w/out an existing deal but why do so many seem to think there is no chance of working out trade deals without the EU? I'm sure President Trump would be happy to fast track a trade deal with our close allies in the UK to provide whatever is needed.


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is circumspective
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quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
quote:
Originally posted by bcereuss:
I read this as a good thing; a clean break (for the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) with no strings attached. My understanding is that the deal with the EU would have really watered down Brexit by forcing (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) to essentially pay an “early withdrawal” penalty and making Brexit toothless. It’s a way the EU is trying to dictate to (the U.K.? England? Great Britain?) how to run their country.

I think (hope?) this is their way to tell the EU to “pack sand;” we’re not playing by your stinking rules; we’re outta here, so stuff it!

Tell me where I’m wrong, please?


The UK really IS a united kingdom - England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Great Britian is just the biggest island - England, Scotland and Wales.

Those folks who voted to leave are trying to 'throw off the yoke of petty tyranny' - sound familiar?


Tac, I wish the best for you all over there.
Thank you for the distinctions/definitions. I've often wondered about the specific geopolitical names as they relate to the UK. You've made it simple & clear to me.



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quote:
Originally posted by Brett B:
Several of the articles I've read on this state that without a deal the UK will "crash" out of the EU without any trade deals in place. They then follow this up with statements about how the UK will collapse. No food or fuel, blood in the streets, etc. How realistic is this scenario?

I understand there will be some bumpy times of uncertainty w/out an existing deal but why do so many seem to think there is no chance of working out trade deals without the EU? I'm sure President Trump would be happy to fast track a trade deal with our close allies in the UK to provide whatever is needed.

Fear mongering!
Because the leftists and the press (but I repeat myself...) want the UK to REMAIN in the EU.
Yes, hard BREXIT, then re-negotiate trade deals as a sovereign nation.

If Brexit succeeds, and if the Yellow Vest movement in France leads to a Frexit... the entire EU will come to an end. Good riddance!



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
repudiate
/rɪˈpjud·iˌeɪt/

to refuse to accept or obey something or someone;

to refuse to accept something or someone as true, good, or reasonable:

Smile


jiggery-pokery
: underhanded manipulation or dealings : TRICKERY
Synonyms for jiggery-pokery
Synonyms

artifice, chicane, chicanery, gamesmanship, hanky-panky, jugglery, legerdemain, skulduggery (or skullduggery), subterfuge, trickery, wile



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quote:
Originally posted by braillediver:
May's probably gone tomorrow.

She should of had a copy of that book, Art of the Deal or something......


Yeah, heard it was a decent read.



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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

If you scroll down in this link, it states the amount owed by the UK to leave the EU as 39bllion pounds = almost $50 billion dollars Eek
 
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quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
Sounds like a clean break would be better than worse. The people who want a deal are the ones profiting from the existing deal.


This is what I understand also. The deal was a horrible one that would slow walk the exit resulting in not much of an exit at all.


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Brexit Vote Disaster: No Matter What Happens Politically, Britain Must Leave The EU

Brexit: Don't be confused by Britain's Brexit vote. The parliamentary loss by British Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit plan is a defeat for her, not for Britain's ultimate pullout from the failed EU. Brexit, at this late hour, remains very much alive.

The deal that May struck with the EU, after nearly 18 months of non-stop talks, satisfied almost no one.

For Britain's hard-left Labor Party, leaving the increasingly socialist EU was never on the agenda. So any Brexit deal, of any sort, would not be satisfactory.

But it was ultimately opposition from her own party that sank May's Brexit agreement. May had already gotten 27 EU countries to sign off on the deal, a difficult feat in itself.

Even so, many of May's Conservative Party colleagues felt she had done a poor job of negotiating, giving away far too much to the EU bureaucrats, while also losing a seat at the table where rules are made. A lose-lose, as far as they were concerned.
Vote Of No Confidence

Anger over the deal was out in the open, and May's defeat was widely predicted. The only question was how big her Brexit deal loss would be. Most people expected a loss of around 230 votes. May's Brexit plan lost 432 to 202 — exactly as expected, by 230 votes, but still the worst defeat by a British government since 1924. In short, it was an epic drubbing.

So what next? May has called for a vote of no-confidence, beating her foes to the punch. In a parliamentary system, losing such a vote can be fatal to your career and lead to a takeover by the opposition if a national election is called. But it can also breathe new life into a wounded politician, and that's what May is now. The bet is, while she lost the Brexit vote, she'll win the vote of no confidence.

Brexit is another matter entirely.

"Take Back Control" was one of the slogans that carried the day for pro-Brexit politicians during the June, 2016 U.K vote to leave the EU. But the deal that May negotiated gives very little control back to the U.K. over the next couple of years. By law, one way or another, the U.K. will cease to be a member of the EU effective March 29 of this year. At that time, it will either have a deal in place to smooth the way, or it will leave chaotically, with many things to be settled either through negotiations or legal action.

In short, it may not be pretty.
Government Collapse?

As CNBC succinctly put it, the defeat "leaves the prospect of a complete collapse of government, a disorderly exit from the bloc or even the entire Brexit process being scrapped altogether over the coming weeks."

Should you care about all this? Absolutely. Some 1.1 million Americans work for British firms. Indeed, at $480 billion in total investment, Britain has more money invested in the U.S. than any other country — including China and Japan. We sell some $123 billion in goods to the U.K. every year. So whether Britain thrives or dives matters.

Same with the EU. But with the exception of free trade, we think the EU has been heading in the wrong direction for some time now. And its economies all pretty much show that, growing ever more slowly as their populations age and their economies lose their dynamism.

Britain is smart to get out while it can and disengage from the internal EU mess as much as possible. Increasingly, the EU has become an unaccountable, hyper-regulated political bully run by even-more unaccountable bureaucrats. At one point in the not-too-distant past, the EU bravely predicted it would "leapfrog" the U.S. in growth and jobs.

Today, that's not even a joke. It's a painful memory of unfulfilled wishes.
Labor's (EU) Love Lost

The U.K. still has hope. Sure, its Labor Party is awful, with its socialist leader, Jeremy Corbyn, so far to the left on the political spectrum he makes Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez look like Ayn Rand. Yet, Britain's best hope for a better economic future is the coyote strategy: When caught in a trap, coyotes are known to gnaw a leg off to escape death.

That's where the U.K. is now. By the EU agreement, Britain will have to live under EU rules for a year or two with no direct say in how the rules are made or applied. Given this, Britain should not hold another referendum. Its people already spoke, loudly and clearly. If the British government can't come to an agreement among themselves and with the EU, it should leave anyway.
Abandoning The Failed EU

The EU is a disaster in slow motion. Its laughable rules, regulations and endlessly detailed directions for its member nations on how to run their economies — instructing them on everything from immigration policy to the size and shape of bananas allowed in markets — represent a massive loss of sovereignty and economic self-rule for its 27 members.

Despite all the dire prognostications by pundits, politicians and punters of various stripes, Britain doesn't have much to lose by leaving the EU. As we noted, during the initial referendum to leave the EU, nearly everyone expected disaster if the Brexit vote won. It didn't happen. Instead, Britain did better than the rest of Europe.

By freeing itself from the EU, even while continuing to trade with it, Britain would be far better off. A European Superstate staffed by feckless bureaucrats was always a bad idea. It still is. Britain, walk away.

https://www.investors.com/poli...vote-theresa-may-eu/



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23946 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Seems to me there are two possible really bad outcomes at this point, along with the “hard Brexit” one:
1. Elections are called, Labour wins—disaster
2. Another referendum is held, Brexit loses, the EU as usual keeps holding elections until they win—the end of democracy in the UK.
Of those options, hard Brexit seems by far the best.
Where is Boris Johnson when we need him?


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Posts: 18018 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Excellent analysis by John “I told you so!” O’Sullivan at National Review:

quote:
Ten Thoughts on Theresa May’s Brexit-Deal Defeat
John O'SullivanJanuary 16, 2019 11:33 AM

British Prime Minister Theresa May arrives at the European Union summit in Brussels, Belgium, June 22. (Gonzalo Fuentes/Reuters)
1. Theresa May’s defeat by the unexpectedly large margin of 230 votes last night was indeed “historic,” as every bore in journalism and punditry wrote — but only because of its size: It was the largest defeat for a government on a major issue in parliamentary history. Some of the earlier defeats turned out to be historic in a more substantial sense — Neville Chamberlain’s loss of Tory support in the 1940 Norway debate, leading to the appointment of Winston Churchill as prime minister, is the best example (though Chamberlain was not actually defeated but won the vote). Other such votes were less important because they didn’t lead to much, such as the vote of no confidence in the 1924 Labour government, which led to Stanley Baldwin’s lackluster “Safety First” Tory government, which in turn lost the following election — which, come to think of it, may not be a bad forecast of the unexciting May regime.

2. Don’t trust any of the predictions that as a result of this vote, some particular next-step “option” is now off the agenda because it lacks parliamentary support. That’s because no single option for Brexit or Remain currently enjoys a parliamentary majority. All, however, have some prospect of succeeding in eventually amassing such a majority. That even includes a No Deal Brexit, since that’s what will happen unless a majority of MPs gradually gather around another option. Most media people either don’t know that or don’t want you to know that because they disapprove of No Deal and of the kind of voters who support it.

3. It’s always interesting to compare the expected effects of a surprise upset with the actual effects. For most of the last year, press commentary treated the Tory Brexiteers as the main opposition to the soft-as-putty Brexit that became May’s Withdrawal Agreement. Yet when its defeat was announced, the large pro-Remain crowd outside Parliament cheered lustily. It was important to them that the Brexiteers should not enjoy a victory. So they claimed it as their own in the hope of ensuring that they do actually benefit. Similarly, pre-vote there had been dire media predictions that a defeat for May would mean a fall in the pound. It was the predictions that collapsed, however, when May’s defeat led to a rise in the pound. It was swiftly explained by the financial pundits that it was the very size of May’s defeat that caused the pound to rise rather than fall, because it might mean we would now get an even softer Brexit than before. Hmmnnn. I’m not sure that would convince me if I’d lost money following their first advice.

4. Another factor at play here is the confusion that May herself causes by constantly reiterating her absolute determination to achieve Brexit and fulfill the instruction given by the voters in the referendum. That doesn’t deceive the Westminster village, but it has persuaded others that she is a symbol of Brexit at any price. In reality, she is a symbol of subordinating Brexit to the wishes of a Remain establishment and cabinet without seeming to do so. She is thus a cause of confusion and an obstacle to any fruitful change of government and/or Tory policy in response to last night’s defeat. Her rhetoric will probably remain strong, but she will likely be as weak towards the Labour and Tory Remain Ultras like Dominic Grieve as she has been towards the EU negotiators and the establishment. Unless she undergoes a Damascene conversion, she will now open negotiations with Opposition parties and her own Remainer rebels on the next Plan B while ramping up her Brexit language to keep Brexiteers happy and Boris at bay. This kicking the can down the road works until you run out of road, which in this case will be the 29th of March — and that means on present form that she will try to get the EU to agree to a postponement of Brexit. That would keep open a Pandora’s Box of competing alternatives to Brexit that the fixed date was intend to close firmly.

5. Tory MPs should therefore tell the Whips that their support can’t be relied on in tomorrow’s vote of no confidence and, in effect, force her resignation. That looks very unlikely at present — though a Daily Telegraph editorial urges her to go voluntarily in a quiet way — but it’s absolutely vital. If she goes, the options for the government get more and better under a new leader — if only because May and her cabal would no longer control the levers of power, the party machine, and the writing of the next Tory manifesto (which may be needed sooner than we now think). If she stays, the government will gradually lose control of the Brexit agenda to Labour and the Tories’ own Remain Ultras. Nothing good can be done while she’s PM.

6. That’s not such a scary or dramatic action. Under the rules of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, a defeat on a vote of no confidence no longer necessarily requires an election. Its first effect is a two-week hiatus while everyone wonders what to do next. Owing to the folly of not ditching her in December, the time is not ideal for a Tory leadership election. But in addition to being vital to avoid a slow catastrophe, a leadership election would also allow the debate about Brexit’s next stage to be held inside the Tory party rather than thrown into the chaos of a debate controlled not by the experienced party managers on both sides but by a speaker, John Bercow, who has made little secret of his intention to tilt the parliamentary rules in favor of Remain.

7. As I wrote above the media, the establishment, and an unstable Remain majority of MPs want to avoid a No Deal Brexit — or in ordinary English, Brexit — at almost all costs. Their difficulties are that all the other options have major and perhaps even disabling flaws. For instance, an actual reversal of Brexit would require the passage of legislation to reverse the legislation that was passed by an immemse majority a year ago. That’s embarrassing, of course, and also open to effective obstruction and delay by those MPs who still support Brexit. That would almost certainly take it past the 29th of March, making it somewhat pointless. Also, it’s perhaps true that MPs might change the law if they could do so without being seen and held to account. But what if they had to go on record repealing Brexit openly? That might be a different matter, especially when (as now) an election might occur at any time. Similarly, it’s occurred to proponents of a Second Referendum that it might actually produce a second majority for Brexit. Oh, calamity. So they are playing with some all-too-original ideas. Stephen Kinnock, son of the former Labour leader and now a rising moderate star, came up with one: hold a referendum that did not offer the voters a choice between Remain and No Deal Brexit because he thinks a No Deal Brexit would be too bad for the U.K. economy. That looks too much like arrogance on stilts to be really popular even with MPs.

8. All these parliamentary maneuvers by Remainers, moreover, are being proposed and discussed under the shadow of the fact that public support for Brexit refuses to change more than marginally despite an astonishing barrage of Remain propaganda of the most exaggerated and silliest kind. (Its silliness may help explain why the voters have not been more influenced by it; it’s treating them as fools in the most patronizing way.) As a result MPs are uneasily aware that they may get an unwelcome reaction if they go too far in reversing their earlier professions of support for the referendum result. A re-reversal — or what Churchill once called a re-rat — is more likely than you may think. If Leavers tell their MPs (in no uncertain terms) that they’ll organize, finance, and vote against them, we may all be surprised to see how quickly they get the religion of democracy.

9. Nor are the latest polls very encouraging for the Opposition in partisan terms. A new poll of who would be the best prime minister has Corbyn down to 20 percent and May at 38 percent. Only 46 percent of 2017 Labour voters picked Corbyn. More Remain voters pick May over Corbyn — not unfairly because he has kept Labour from taking a more pro-Remain position. And the most interesting (and reassuring) result of all: The lead that Corbyn enjoyed with 18–24s is down to only 4 percent. We should now start looking at how Corbyn would compare against Boris, David Davis, and Dominic Raab (the leading Brexiteers), since their cabinet rivals who backed the May Deal very obviously misread the signs.

10. And that brings me to my final point: I cannot resist the temptation to say: “I told you so.” If you go back to my Brexit analyses of this time last year, you will find that my firmest argument was that Theresa May was being maneuvered, maybe with her own connivance, by a cabal of Downing Street aides and Remain-minded cabinet ministers into adopting a Brexit policy that would take her into a conflict with the majority of her own party that would not end well. The latest fruit of that policy fell on her head last night like 230 over-ripe tomatoes.

And it hasn’t ended yet either.


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“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18018 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://townhall.com/tipsheet/...theresa-may-n2539130

Theresa May Survives a Second No Confidence Vote

Prime Minister Theresa May survived a second vote of no confidence in Parliament Wednesday. The ayes were 306, the noes were 325.

She has until Monday to present Parliament with a new Brexit deal
 
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Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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quote:
Theresa May Survives a Second No Confidence Vote

As expected...

MPs are expected to vote on the motion, which is widely expected to fail, given that both the DUP - the small northern Irish party that helps shore up May's government - and several Labour MPs have decided to back to back May. And few, if any, Tories (even the hard-core Brexiteers) are expected to break ranks and cross the floor).

quote:
She has until Monday to present Parliament with a new Brexit deal

That right there is kind of funny... Razz
Given that it took her two years to come up with this disaster of a "non-Brexit, Brexit" plan.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
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