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British Parliament overwhelmingly rejects Brexit deal with the European Union Login/Join 
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They're going to have to hold a parliamentary election and form a new government.
 
Posts: 19155 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Muzzle flash
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quote:
Originally posted by signewt:
Step over this line....no really....step over THIS line.... o wait I mean THIS line....ok ok.....THIS line....
Did we send Obama over there?

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth

When they ask me, "Paper or plastic?" I just say, "Doesn't matter to me. I am bi-sacksual."
 
Posts: 22498 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The problem is obvious from this one line,
“Theresa May has written to the European Union to request a further delay to Brexit until 30 June.”

You don’t need the EUs permission. You’re f’ing leaving. Your citizens voted to do so. They didn’t vote to ask permission. Tell them you will have a plan on June 30. Or go F yourself.
 
Posts: 3660 | Location: Texas | Registered: October 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This video explains why this is so important:

Pat Condell: Our Battle of Britain
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/2060042654



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's to hoping Nigel and the Brexit party are successful
----------------------

Farage Calls for ‘Peaceful Revolution’ to Challenge UK’s ‘Broken’ Politics

Nigel Farage has said that the UK’s “broken” and “out of touch” political system needs to be challenged in a “peaceful political revolution” so that Britons can “win back the ability of our nation to be democratic.”

Addressing a crowd at a Brexit Party rally in Flyde, on Saturday, Mr Farage warned that “there is something absolutely fundamental at stake” beyond the campaign for May 23rd’s European Parliament election, which goes to the very core of British democracy.

“Can you imagine an African country, if there had been an election or a referendum that had been overturned? Many of those in the Remain camp would be having fits of the vapours, demanding the United Nations was sent in and that democracy must win through,” Mr Farage said.

“But here in the country that has had a continuous parliament since the thirteenth century… in the country that has the mother of parliaments, it is in our very country that the very democratic process has been wilfully betrayed by a political class that has acted — in my view — in the most disgraceful, almost treacherous manner,” he said.

The former UKIP leader formed The Brexit Party earlier this year in anticipation of Prime Minister Theresa May breaking her Brexit pledges, resulting in the UK being pulled into European Parliament elections.

The veteran Eurosceptic politician was proven right in recent months when the prime minister twice delayed Brexit and ruled out leaving on March 29th without a deal after her controversial EU-approved withdrawal treaty was rejected three times in the House of Commons.

“So we are fighting these elections because we are standing up and fighting for the very principle of democracy, for the very principle of self-determination, and for the very thing that those generations that went before us made massive sacrifices to defend,” the Brexiteer said.

Nigel Farage said contempt for politicians is at a level he has never seen before in an exclusive interview with Breitbart News Daily. “It is about democracy,” Mr Farage continued. “It is about that bond of trust that needs to exist between government and people for a country to operate successfully,” adding that the current two-party system, dominated by the Tories and Labour, is “broken” and “no longer fit for service.”

The lack of public regard for the two main parties was played out on Thursday’s local elections, where the Tories lost over 1,300 votes and while Labour was expected to gain some 400, they lost nearly 100. Tory Party activists warned that anger over the government’s failure to deliver Brexit was playing out in campaigning on the doorstop, resulting in many voters spoiling their ballots, writing in pro-Brexit messages and calling for Prime Minister May to resign.

Mr Farage went on to tell the rally that the two-party system “serves nothing but itself. We have a Parliament that is out of touch with the nation. We have a civil service that has given up on any idea of being independent and many of them are now active Remain campaigners.”

Calling the UK’s political system “rotten to the core,” Farage rallied for a “peaceful political revolution” to “win back our birthright. We are going to win back the ability of our nation to be democratic.”

The Brexit Party is currently polling first in European Parliament voting intentions and is predicted that more than half of those who voted Conservative in the 2017 General Election will vote for the party in the May 23rd election.

https://www.breitbart.com/euro...lenge-broken-system/




America First!
 
Posts: 3080 | Location: Idaho | Registered: January 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You
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Nigel Farage speech at Brexit party Rally (Newport Wales).

I sure hope this guy wins.



....Shredding lead both barrels
 
Posts: 1956 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For all the complaints about politics not adhering to the Brexit referendum result and justified anger about the continued delays, the basic problem remains that while the question was quite simple - "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" - different proponents of "leave" campaigned with rather contradictory suggestions of what would come afterwards.

Pre-referendum, Nigel Farage frequently held up Norway and Switzerland as shining examples of well-off non-EU nations, particularly addressing the complaints of British fishermen about EU fisheries regulation with the Norwegian example. However, both countries are members of the European Single Market, including freedom of personal movement, and pay into some EU funds, though they are not voting members of the EU institutions. OTOH former Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel promised the curry house business that after Brexit and termination of European freedom of personal movement, they would be able to bring in staff from Asia more easily to take the place of EU citizens.

Boris Johnson of course toured with the famous red bus displaying the (false) claim that the UK was paying the EU 350 million pound a week, which should rather be spent on the National Health Service. There was the common assertion that the EU would fall all over itself to meet British demands for future trade relations due to the importance of the British market, which was wildly misjudging the relative economic size of both parties. IOW, Brexit was a canvas everybody could and did project his/her personal ideas to overcome various grievances on.

So even the current popular slogan "leave means leave" isn't quite as clear-cut. A Norway-type solution would mean to leave the EU (though Farage now rejects this). A customs union would mean to leave the EU (but would barr the UK from making its own trade deals). A no-deal Brexit certainly would mean to leave the EU, though with all the potential economic disadvantages. Any of the above would however piss off some part of the "leave" camp (not to speak of the 48 percent who voted "remain") who might say they didn't vote for this particular outcome, as something else was promised to them.

I think this is the actual cause of Parliament's inability to agree on one option, and was in fact made worse by the 2017 general elections. Because it can be assumed that candidates ran on various ideas for Brexit - not least based upon where their respective districts fell on the leave-remain hardness scale in the prior referendum - and were elected upon the specific promises they made during the campaign. Which now means their mandate is not just based upon whether their respective constituents voted leave or remain, but upon a half-dozen different suggestions how to implement this.

This is compounded by regional differences. Both Scotland and Northern Ireland had majorities for "remain"; the Scottish SNP is already making noises about a new independence referendum because the base has been changed from the last one in 2014. A hard Irish border would violate the peace settlement between the Northern Irish Catholics and Protestants, but the Protestant DUP upon which May relies for her majority in Parliament won't have the customs border shifted to the Irish Sea and NI being treated separately from the rest of the UK. It's no wonder voters are fed up with procrastrination, regardless of whether they were originally in the "leave" or "remain" camp.

This week's municipal election results are indicative of that, with many spoiling their ballots by scribbling "Brexit" or variations of a more general "just get it done" on them. That went equally at the expense of May's Conservatives and the oppositional Labour Party, which is just as all over the place on Brexit, if generally more pro-EU. Instead, smaller anti-Brexit parties like the Liberal Democrats and Greens profited. UKIP also lost, but Farage's new Brexit Party which seems to have drawn most of the former's original support was established too recently to stand in the elections, so that isn't giving a clear picture. Results are certainly a warning signal to both major parties though to find a solution, any solution, and accept that it will piss off some part of the electorate.

quote:
Theresa May urges Jeremy Corbyn to do a Brexit deal

51 minutes ago

Theresa May has called for Jeremy Corbyn to "put their differences aside" and agree a Brexit deal.

The UK was supposed to leave the EU on 29 March - but the deadline was delayed until 31 October, after MPs rejected Theresa May's withdrawal agreement three times.

Mrs May is now seeking Labour support to get an agreement through Parliament.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, she said they should "listen to what voters said" in Thursday's local elections.

The Conservatives lost 1,334 councillors, while Labour failed to make expected gains, instead losing 82 seats.

The Liberal Democrats benefited from Tory losses, gaining 703 seats, with the Greens and independents also making gains.

The prime minister blamed the Brexit impasse for the losses - but said the elections gave "fresh urgency" to find a way to "break the deadlock".

Mrs May said she hopes to find a "unified, cross-party position" with Labour - despite admitting that her colleagues "find this decision uncomfortable" and that "frankly, it is not what I wanted either".

Talks between Labour and the Conservatives are to resume on Tuesday.

According to the Sunday Times, Mrs May is willing to compromise on three areas: customs, goods alignment and workers' rights.

The paper says she could put forward plans for a comprehensive, but temporary, customs arrangement with the EU that would last until the next general election.

The BBC's political correspondent Chris Mason said reaching a deal was "fraught with risk" for both Mrs May and Mr Corbyn.

"A deal on a customs union would be deeply divisive for the Conservatives," he said. "Accepting there'd be no new referendum would split Labour."

[...]


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48165373
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's rather evident the European elections in the UK on 23 May are becoming a single-issue vote on Brexit, since as things stand currently, the newly-elected MEPs will pack up again and head back home by 31 October the latest anyway (but see note below)*. The hard Brexit camp has obviously united behind Farage's new Brexit Party, which has gained further in a current polls and can expect to get more votes than both the waffling Conservatives and Labour combined at 34 percent; the remainders of the original UKIP add another four percent.

At the same time, the explicitely pro-EU Liberal Democrats have added almost as much and pushed ahead of the Conservatives to third place; the Greens have also gained some. The numbers seem to indicate that likely voters are split about 40:30:30 between hard Brexit, soft Brexit and no Brexit. Though it should be noted this is just a single survey, it appears in line with the trend; histories of recent polls for the European elections can be seen here and here.

There is also a continued track of the original referendum question which indicates the support for "remain" has actually grown over "leave" since 2016, but that is obviously not the issue at hand in the situation right now. The cross-reference does however suggest that for the 40-percent "leave" camp, Brexit now does indeed mean a hard Brexit, while a large part of the "remain" camp would accept a soft Brexit that would have the UK retain some benefits of UK membership if Brexit is the designated outcome; this would supposedly be many of the two big parties' remaining voters in the upcoming elections.

quote:
Brexit party may get more EU election votes than Tories and Labour combined – poll

Opinium poll on European election voting intentions suggests surge of support for Nigel Farage’s party

Michael Savage


Policy editor

Sat 11 May 2019 17.44 BST
Last modified on Sat 11 May 2019 20.47 BST

Nigel Farage’s Brexit party is on course to secure more support at the European elections than the Tories and Labour combined, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer.

In the most striking sign to date of surging support for Farage, the poll suggests more than a third of voters will back him on 23 May. It puts his party on 34% of the vote, with less than a fortnight before the election takes place.

The poll suggests support for the Conservatives has collapsed amid the Brexit uncertainty, with Theresa May’s party on just 11%. Labour is a distant second, on 21%. The Lib Dems perform the best of any of the openly anti-Brexit parties, one point ahead of the Tories on 12% of the vote.

With the Brexit party securing more than three times the level of support for the Tories, the poll confirms the concerns of senior Conservatives that it is haemorrhaging support as Brexit remains unresolved. Just a fortnight ago, the Brexit party was neck-and-neck with Labour on 28%. Now it has a 13-point lead over Jeremy Corbyn’s party.

The Conservatives are now only narrowly ahead of the Brexit party when voters are asked who they would vote for at a general election. The Tories are on 22% support, down 4% on a fortnight ago, with the Brexit party on 21% backing. Labour leads on 28%, but is down five points on the last poll.

Leave voters seem to be flocking to the Brexit party. A fortnight ago, it was joint first with the Conservatives among leave voters in terms of general election voting, with both on 33%. It now appears to be the clearer choice of leave voters, with 40% saying they will vote for the Brexit party and 27% backing the Conservatives.

May is also close to losing her lead over Corbyn as to who voters regard as the best prime minister. Her lead has dropped from four points to just one point.

The Opinium poll also found that despite the dominance of Brexit as an issue since the 2016 referendum, there was a significant proportion of voters who did not know each party’s position on it. The poll reveals 36% are not aware of the Conservative party’s stance, while 38% say the same about Labour.

For those who said they knew, 23% think the Conservatives support a soft Brexit, while 23% think they support a hard Brexit. For the Labour party, 25% think they support remaining in the EU, while 31% think they support a soft Brexit.

Opinium polled 2,004 people online between 8-10 May.


https://www.theguardian.com/wo...labour-combined-poll

* As an aside, two months/pages ago on this thread I was positive the UK wouldn't participate in the European elections anymore. Yet as of this week, the British government has officially stated it will, since there is no more time to implement Brexit before, even if the decision was made right now. I'm miffed not so much over being wrong rather than over the continued mess and added hassle this means. Another data point that political predictions are worth exactly the value of electrons spent to make them in the current volatile world. So at this point, I'm not ruling out anything, including another extension, another referendum, or the UK unilaterally rescinding its Brexit decision (which the European Court of Justice has ruled they can do and would have to be accepted back with all their special rights and exemptions in EU membership).

quote:
Originally posted by BansheeOne:
The thing is, there are elections for the European Parliament from 23 to 26 May, and it's highly unlikely the UK could organize a referendum to reverse the Brexit decision, then organize an election campaign for the EP in the remaining two months. However, if the UK was still an EU member by the time the new parliament convenes on 2 July without them having participated in the elections, all sorts of paradoxes would occur; they would have no parliamentary representation, couldn't elect the next president of the EU Commission or confirm the Commission as a whole, and in theory could be prosecuted under the EU treaties for withholding democratic participation from their citizens.

Also, the seats so far held by British MEPs have already been redistributed to give some smaller member states better representation in the future parliament. For all practical purposes, the ship for an exit from Brexit has sailed, and the limited remaining time would be best used to let the British electorate itself decide on deal or no deal to break the parliamentary stalemate.
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Of course the Brits aren't the only ones revolting against the immigration policies of the EU:

Hungary and the Future of Europe
https://www.claremont.org/crb/...CtPgo6pub_hMI8sqHFdk

I was much taken by this article in the Claremont Review by Christopher Caldwell.

The subject of this essay is Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, who famously closed his country’s borders to hordes of migrants from Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. I urge you to read the entire article, which I can only selectively discuss. As Caldwell explains, Hungary has been a member of the European Union since 2004 and his political party was closely aligned with Angela Merkel’s. Remembering Hungary’s history and intellectual curiosity, Orban rejected the policies of the E.U. on migration.

Orbán believes that Western countries are in decline, and that they are in decline because of “liberalism,” which in his political vocabulary is a slur. He uses the word to describe the contemporary process of creating neutral social structures and a level playing field, usually in the name of rights.

This project of creating neutral institutions has two problems. First, it is destructive, because the bonds of affection out of which communities are built are -- by definition -- non-neutral. Second, it is a lie, because someone must administer this project, and administration, though advertised as neutral, rarely is. Some must administer over others.

Carried to its logical conclusion, liberalism will, in Orbán’s view, destroy Hungary. “It is not written in the great book of humanity that there must be Hungarians in the world,” he said in his State of the Nation address in February. “It is only written in our hearts -- but the world cares nothing for that.” This sense that Hungary might be only one political miscalculation away from extinction is widely shared. There was one country, in the wake of World War I, which was treated more harshly than Germany. The Treaty of Trianon turned a cosmopolitan, advanced central European powerhouse of 20 million people -- the Kingdom of Hungary, Budapest’s half of the Austro-Hungarian empire -- into a statelet of 8 million and divvied up two thirds of its territory among other nations.

He recognized that the nation’s existence depends on its economic performance, and boosted Hungary’s by a series of measures that Caldwell describes, including cutting the tax rate and instituting work-to-welfare.

Orbán’s program, universally denounced as a gamble, was a staggering success. Hungary had repaid its IMF loans in full by 2013. The country now has 4% growth and an unemployment rate of about 3%. Debt has fallen from 85% to 71% of GDP, and labor force participation risen from 55% to around 70%.

Despite pressure from the EU, he refused to open his borders to immigrants from Africa and the Arab world, foreseeing that otherwise Hungary’s patrimony -- a Christian ethos -- would be lost. Among those who opposed them was the Hungarian-born American George Soros, who, with his money sheltered from taxation by U.S. foundation tax laws, used those funds to undercut Hungarian nationalist desires. As is often the case, the Soros NGO in effect constituted another political party against which he had to battle to preserve his nationalist agenda. He succeeded against Soros, but then faced a difficult dilemma: The country’s dependence on EU subsidies and the opposition of the leaders of the EPP (the European Peoples Party) which endorses candidates for the Byzantine and undemocratic European Parliament. Without examining the ridiculous top-heavy structure of the EU, it’s enough to say that being ousted from the EPP can predictably negatively impact Orban’s economic policies.

Nowhere does the globalist set take easily to ouster from power and prestige, but here I think they have a tougher battle than they might have imagined.

It’s not just Hungarian and U.S. voters that are moving away from the inept supranational controlling institutions and globalist worldview. Large number of Brits, Germans, and Italians are also having second thoughts about being ruled by unaccountable bureaucrats who eschew the very concept of nationalism.

Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini argues:

... Europe will become an “Islamic caliphate” unless nationalist parties make gains in the European elections later this month.

Salvini, Italy’s deputy prime minister and leader of the Northern League party, is trying to form a coalition of nationalist and far-right forces ahead of the elections and was speaking in Budapest during a visit to his ideological soulmate Viktor Orbán…

“For our children, to leave behind an Islamic caliphate with sharia law in our cities is not something I want to do and I’m going to do everything in my power to avert this sad ending for Europe,” he said at a joint press conference with Orbán, who has used similarly incendiary rhetoric to rail against migration to Europe from Africa and the Middle East. Salvini made similar comments earlier this week in Italy.

In Germany, Angela Merkel has her lost grip on her party -- and the issues seem, in large part, to relate to her views on immigration and family issues.

(As an aside it is indeed ironic that the foreign policy disasters of Obama and Hillary Clinton are a major factor in this stream of outmigration from Arab lands and Africa, outmigration which doom the globalization policies they endorse and promote.)

In Britain the Brexit party seems to have caught fire.

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.co...r.html#ixzz5niY76cOi



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The "American Thinker" article is frankly crap, because it leaves out ideologically inconvenient parts of the one from the "Claremont Review" it's referencing. Thus the reader is left to wonder why Orban's Hungary with its booming economy is also dependent upon EU subsidies, etc.

The linked "Claremont" piece is a lot better. Christopher Caldwell is still clearly sympathetic to Orban, but mentions his big-government, nationalist-socialist policies, the cronyism, media control and state-sponsored campaigns against political opponents. Caldwell tries to relativate them, but actually makes a good case that the politics of Europe's New Right are suspiciously similar to the Old Left's with their anti-market, government-control bend.

Additionally, he explains quite well how Hungary's economic success is based upon EU aids for rebuilding the country's communist-era infrastructure etc., and above all the European Single Market with its freedoms of movement which allowed Western manufacturers to make use of lower work cost in Eastern Europe for production of parts in transcontinental just-in-time delivery chains. Orban's economics have definitely made better use of that for Hungary than those of his post-communist predecessors, even if you note that his clan and buddies have somehow become some of the richest people in the country on public projects (often supported by EU money) since he took office.

Caldwell's major failing is that he buys into the "Merkel invited refugees into Europe" narrative, and is therefore unable or unwilling to acknowledge that all the talk about a "European caliphate" by Orban et al is mostly to whip up fear for electoral support, and distract from the expansion of government and economic control (fun fact: Angela Merkel's decision to "open" - i. e., not close - the border pertained to the 10,000 or so refugees Orban told Austria and Germany one evening he was going to bus to the Austrian border the next morning; there a various investigative reconstructions of events leading up to the crisis, like here and here) .

In the end though, Caldwell explains quite well why authoritarian-trending Eastern European members like Hungary and Poland (the biggest net recipient of EU budget money, equivalent to its entire defense budget) won't leave the European Union any time soon - they need it to underwrite their economic upswing, and at the same time as a bogeyman to secure domestic popular support while the government parties expand their control. The Brexit mess (to draw the circle back to the original topic) has made such propositions unpopular elsewhere anyway; most eurosceptic parties, both on the political Left and Right, have now struck Whateverxit from their respective platforms.

Marine Le Pen of the French National Rally recently claimed this was because the surge of right-wing parties ahead of the European elections had opened the perspective to rebuild the EU according to their ideas rather than disbanding it; some are suggesting to unite all those parties in one caucus which might become the biggest in the European Parliament (so far they have been spread over three to five groups, depending upon which you include). However, there are the usual problems of a nationalist international.

For example, the Eastern European parties might have an interest in keeping the EU money flowing, but this a popular grievance among net-payer members (Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, the UK) upon which domestic right-wingers seize (see the red Brexit bus). The Italian Lega and other Mediterranean parties are all for distributing refugees across member states, which the Eastern Europeans oppose. Most of the European New Right are pro-Russian, which is anathema to the Polish PiS; the latter is also anti-German, which makes them no friends of the local AfD. So it's going to be interesting who ends up in which group after the elections in two weeks.
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
The Brexit mess (to draw the circle back to the original topic) has made such propositions unpopular elsewhere anyway; most eurosceptic parties, both on the political Left and Right, have now struck Whateverxit from their respective platforms.

Interesting. I always appreciate your perspective.

What do you think of this?
The Only Way is Brexit: Farage Surges AGAIN.
https://humanevents.com/2019/0...farage-surges-again/



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Quite honestly, my opinion of Farage as a person is that he is at best making a living from being an entertainer, and at worst a con artist. He has been a member of the European Parliament for 20 years, dodging in and out of UKIP leadership as he unsuccessfull ran for a seat in the House of Commons where the party's only member ever was a Tory defector, then after the Brexit vote, and again as the party took on board controversial figures like former English Defence League leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Tommy Robinson and developed into an openly xenophobic group, destroying its voter support.

That he then stood up a new party as soon as he sensed that the UK would still participate in the upcoming European elections, claiming this was to make sure Brexit really happens even though the EUP has next to no role in the process, just smacks of somebody seeking good pay without responsibility trying to extend his current lucrative gig for a couple more months, or however long the affair continues. I wouldn't be surprised if he would be privately okay if Brexit never happened.

All that said, my assessment from a couple posts up stands that the poll numbers for his party represent popular backing for a hard Brexit, which is considerable; while not the majority, it exceeds support for either a soft Brexit or yet to remain in the EU, which is sorta understandable after the endless back and forth over implementation. Returning to the question of groups in the European Parliament, it will be interesting to see which caucus the party joins. It will likely not be the proposed unified right-wing EAPN, since UKIP has already signed up for that. Which exemplifies the European Right's splintering problem.
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, May's talks with Labour about a joint Brexit solution broke down on Friday, so the PM is going to make a "bold offer" to Parliament in the really, really final attempt to have the negotiated deal approved. A poll among Tory members finds that former foreign secretary Boris Johnson is their favorite replacement for May, who has of course announced to step down as prime minister once the deal is through. Health secretary Matt Hancock has warned that any successor shouldn't call general elections until Brexit is completed, because it would risk losing to Labour and "killing Brexit altogether".

quote:
Brexit: Theresa May plans 'bold offer' to get support for deal

1 hour ago

Theresa May has said a "new and improved" Brexit deal will be put to MPs when they vote on the EU Withdrawal Agreement Bill in early June.

Writing in the Sunday Times, Mrs May said the bill will be a "bold offer".

Cabinet minister Rory Stewart told the BBC he hoped extra guarantees on workers' rights would enable "sensible" Labour MPs to support the government.

But Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would oppose the bill and it was "very difficult" to see it making progress.

While he would consider new proposals "very carefully", he said what was being talked about did not appear "fundamentally different" from what was already on the table.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said support in Scotland for staying in the EU had strengthened since the 2016 referendum - when 62% of voters backed Remain - and voters should send a clear message about this in Thursday's European elections.

Mrs May announced this week that MPs would vote on the bill - which would bring the withdrawal agreement into UK law - in the week beginning 3 June. If the bill is not passed, the default position is that the UK will leave the EU on 31 October without a deal.

Labour has said it will vote against the bill after talks with the government on trying to agree a compromise acceptable to its MPs broke down.

The bill risks failing to clear its first parliamentary hurdle, with many Conservative Brexiteers, as well as the DUP, SNP and Liberal Democrats, also opposed.

But in her Sunday Times piece, Mrs May said she will "not be simply asking MPs to think again" on the same deal that they have repeatedly rejected - but on "an improved packaged of measures that I believe can win new support".

The PM said she wanted MPs to consider the new deal "with fresh pairs of eyes - and to give it their support".

Rory Stewart, who is the international development secretary, suggested the two main parties were "about half an inch apart" on the three main issues under discussion - protecting employment rights and environmental standards and having a strong trading relationship with the EU and the rest of the world.

"None of us want to remain in the European Union, none of us want a no-deal Brexit which means logically there has to be a deal," he said.

"We're in the territory of a deal and where we need to focus is Parliament and particularly getting Labour votes across - maybe not Jeremy Corbyn's vote but there are many other moderate, sensible Labour MPs that we should be able to bring across."

'Not different'

While Labour "reserved the right" to consider new proposals, Mr Corbyn said the official talks were at an end and he would not hand ministers a "blank cheque"

Any agreement, he said, must include the scope for future governments to exceed the EU's employment and environmental standards not just keep pace with them.

On the issue of another referendum, he said Labour had kept the option on the table but any vote would have to be on a "credible" deal - which he suggested did not exist right now.

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable said he would be prepared to support the bill if the government agreed to give the public the final say on the terms of exit in a referendum.

He told the BBC's Andrew Marr his party had discussed the "practicalities" of holding another public vote and it was possible before the 31 October deadline.

"We need a proper referendum that will come to a resolution on the issue, with remain on the ballot paper."

'National emergency'

But Change UK spokesman Chuka Umunna said there was "simply not enough time" to hold a referendum before 31 October.

Given it was "almost certain" the Withdrawal Agreement Bill would be defeated, he said the only option was for the the UK to stop Brexit by revoking Article 50.

"We are facing a national emergency," he told Andrew Marr.

"What would be undemocratic would be imposing a no-deal Brexit on the British people that there is not a mandate for."

[...]


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48323522

Meanwhile EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier has stated the obvious and said that as long as the UK remains a member, even if it's just to 31 October, they of course have the right to a post in the Commission, on top of being represented in the European Parliament. And with the way things have been going on the British side, I'm rather afraid it will come to this.

I'm debating with myself whether to discuss the European elections next week as such, branching off from the question of who will caucus with whom in the next parliament mentioned earlier. There is interesting things going on; the Austrian conservative/right-wing coalition government collapsed yesterday over the equivalent of an October surprise, striking a blow to suggestions by Viktor Orban et al to make this a model throughout Europe.

This was a very American-style entrapment video of now-resigned vice chancellor Heinz-Christian Strache in 2017, before that year's Austrian election which brought the ÖVP-FPÖ coalition to power, played via German media (English). Not sure whether expanding like that that would hijack the thread though, or if it's a sufficiently interesting topic for its own.
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by BansheeOne:
Quite honestly, my opinion of Farage as a person is that he is at best making a living from being an entertainer, and at worst a con artist. <snip>

President Trump seems to have a better opinion of Mr. Farage.

“Donald Trump's White House is trying to secure an invitation for Nigel Farage to attend the state banquet being hosted by the Queen when the President visits the UK next month, allies of the Brexit Party leader have claimed…”

https://mol.im/a/7045417



Look about you.
 
Posts: 4995 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Which exemplifies the European Right's splintering problem.


Brexit mess is about to get much, much worse

London (CNN)On May 23, the UK's Brexit mess gets even more complicated.

Nearly two months since Brexit was supposed to happen, Brits will elect candidates to represent them in the European Parliament.

Why? Because Prime Minister Theresa May's failure to get her Brexit deal approved by the UK Parliament has forced the country to remain an EU member state and take part in European elections. And as livid leavers across the country point out, this doesn't look a whole lot like independence.
European elections seldom capture the British public's imagination. But in 2019, they've become the battlefield on which the fight for the nation's future takes place.

The row between Brexiteers and those who want to stop Brexit hasn't calmed since 2016. Remainers are bolstered by the fact that two Brexit deadlines have been missed -- so why not a third or fourth?

Brexiteers know that Theresa May's days as Prime Minister are numbered. They've hated her deal from day one and are now salivating at the idea of a hard-Brexit prime minister taking her place, taking on Brussels and perhaps even taking the UK out of Europe without a deal.
Two new parties formed to stand in the EU elections highlight the UK's problem nicely.
Arch-leaver Nigel Farage launched his Brexit Party last month. Its message is simple: the political class has failed to deliver on the result of the largest democratic exercise in British political history. Let's remind it who's boss.

The party is expected to finish in first place in the EU elections. Farage's success comes as no surprise to the high-profile Conservative Brexiteer, Jacob Rees-Mogg. "He's saying things people want to hear and that they're entitled to hear. We're saying we know better than the people and we shouldn't let them make these risky decisions."

Even said in a moderate voice, the Brexit Party's message gives the political establishment a kicking. "The Brexit Party shouldn't really exist," says James Glancy, a conservationist and former Royal Marine who is standing as a candidate. "People across the political spectrum are really angry that politicians haven't respected (the referendum) result."

It's likely that the governing Conservatives will suffer the heaviest losses to the Brexit Party. Rees-Mogg feels this acutely. "We've lost three-quarters of our vote in opinion polls to a Brexit Party. We now need a leader who will deliver Brexit clearly and cleanly ... We have to be the Brexit party."

What about the "stop Brexit" gang? The 2016 referendum returned a narrow result of 51.9% to 48.1% in favor of Leave. Remainers have been keen to remind people of this.

And fortunately for them, the UK has another new party, Change UK, which favors a second referendum and remaining in the EU.

The issue of a second referendum is a bitter fight in its own right. The opposition Labour Party has fudged its support for a second vote. "As many political commentators have pointed out, if Labour wanted to kill Change UK, it could be unequivocal about the need for a second referendum. But as we know, parts of the Labour have simply sat on the fence and continued repainting it," explains Rachel Johnson, a Change UK candidate.

Unfortunately for Remainers, Change UK is not doing as well as the Brexit Party. It is predicted to pick up just 5% of the vote next week. However, the pro-Remain Liberal Democrats, whose campaign slogan is "Bollocks to Brexit," might finish ahead of Labour, in second place to the Brexit Party.

Labour's support of a second referendum would probably not only kill Change UK, but win back votes from the Liberal Democrats. So why won't they do it?

The problem for Labour is that its vote is badly split between Leave and Remain. That's why it has fudged the issue -- leaving both sides unimpressed.

Becoming an explicitly stop Brexit party could cost them heavily. As one Labour source put it, a strategy that would see Labour "win EU Parliamentary elections but go on to lose the general doesn't make much sense." For its part, Labour is trying to force through its own version of Brexit, which is slightly softer than May's deal.
All of this sets the scene for an almighty row in the coming weeks. Both Conservative and Labour frontbenches are desperate to deliver some form of Brexit, taking the issue off the table. The race to get a deal approved -- and taking credit for it -- could lead to further political success.

But it's easier said than done. Despite the UK taking a bit of a Brexit breather, the fact remains that the House of Commons, which must approve any Brexit deal, has no majority for anything. We've had indicative votes for Brexit alternatives that came to nothing and to date, no one, it seems, has been able to put the national interest ahead of short-term politics. "For two years, Brexit has been used as a bullet in a weapon for both sides," is the view of Guy Verhofstadt, the EU Parliament's Brexit chief.
Ironically, this deadlock in Parliament presents an opportunity to both Brexiteers and remainers. "I think Mrs. May's deal is effectively off the table, and even if it came back it wouldn't get through Parliament," says a confident Rees-Mogg.

The reality of a "completely useless dysfunctional Parliament" and government that "can't get any business through", as Rees-Mogg puts it, would traditionally lead to a general election. But that is risky for both main parties.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/19...-intl-gbr/index.html



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How Farage's Brexit Party Is Destroying The UK Political Establishment

Since Nigel Farage officially launched the 'Brexit Party' six weeks during a coming-out party in Coventry, Farage and his allies have ridden widespread frustration with a seemingly ineffectual British political establishment to the top of the polls, attracting waves of defectors from the Tories and Labour.

The most recent polls - taken just days before the vote, which, for the UK, will take place on Thursday - show the Brexit Party is up by double-digits over its nearest rival, the Liberal Democrats. Meanwhile, support for Labour and the Tories has dwindled to single-digit levels.

If the Brexit Party succeeds, its candidates will occupy a plurality of the UK's 73 MEP seats. In the European Parliament, they will join a growing group of euroskeptic parties that have pledged to oppose the Brussels agenda at every turn and, where they can, change it entirely.

Euroskeptic

Created just four months ago after Farage officially left UKIP, a pro-Brexit party that Farage once led, but that, according to the man who is widely credited as the architect of Brexit, had become increasingly occupied by racists and Islamophobes.

Ironically, the New York Times offers one of the most apt explanations of how Farage managed to pull this off:

As Brexit chainsaws its way through British politics, dismantling decades-old political allegiances, tearing apart the traditional parties and leaving voters confused, frustrated and angry, the Brexit Party is thriving by offering a simple and hard-edge message.

"People feel completely betrayed, they feel abandoned, they feel even hated and despised by the political class and also by the media," said Martin Daubney, the lifelong Labour voter now standing for the Brexit Party, who used to edit a raunchy men’s magazine before reinventing himself as an anti-pornography advocate. "It feels like a grass-roots political revolution on the streets of Britain right now."

Should the Brexit Party succeed in winning the largest share of the vote this week, it will send an unequivocal message to the dithering Tories: The people want Brexit, regardless of the details. A Brexit Party success could give pro-Leave Tories the ammunition they need to see it through.

As the Brexit Party has surged in the polls, the backlash from remainers has intensified, culminating with Farage being 'milkshaked' during a campaign rally in Newcastle.

Political opponents who have denounced Farage as a fascist are having a much harder time arguing against his heterodox slate of candidates, which includes several former revolutionary communists who once defended the IRA's deadly bombing campaign.

Though the Brexit party has been vague about its policy positions (apart from supporting the UK's immediate departure from the EU, even if that means a 'hard' or 'no deal' Brexit), the party's candidates would probably join with other euroskeptic MEPs once they take their seats. However, to determine where it stands on other issues, the Brexit Party has said it would set up an online forum where supporters can weigh in, similar to a platform run by the Five Star Movement in Italy.

But more than anything else, the Brexit Party has benefited from disillusionment with Theresa May's promise that she would take the UK out of the EU on time and in an orderly manner because "Brexit means Brexit." Her inability to do so may have alienated a whole generation of Tory voters.

"It doesn’t matter what happens from now on, I will never ever stick a cross in the Tory box ever again," said Andrew Kirby, 44, sitting beside his father. "There’s nothing that could happen. If the Brexit Party doesn’t come to anything, I shall never vote again."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news...itical-establishment



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by chellim1:
How Farage's Brexit Party Is Destroying The UK Political Establishment

Since Nigel Farage officially launched the 'Brexit Party' six weeks during a coming-out party in Coventry, Farage and his allies have ridden widespread frustration with a seemingly ineffectual British political establishment to the top of the polls, attracting waves of defectors from the Tories and Labour.

The most recent polls - taken just days before the vote, which, for the UK, will take place on Thursday - show the Brexit Party is up by double-digits over its nearest rival, the Liberal Democrats.


That last part is almost as big news as the Brexit Party's phenomenal rise, and further underlines popular disenchantment with the two (former?) major parties' division over Brexit. YouGov doesn't have a good track record as a pollster - they tend to overemphasize the political fringes - but let that sink in: the two leading groups in this survey are a hard-Brexit party which didn't exist half a year ago, yet has improved ten points over the original UKIP's 2014 election result; and a no-Brexit party which has been a distant third force in British politics, but has also improved twelve points over their 2014 results, showing almost as strong as the Conservatives and Labour combined.

Factoring in the other minor parties with a clear stance on the issue, the polarization between the hard-, soft- and no-Brexit camps has thus increased to roughly 40:20:40. That leaves little middle ground for May's deal; of course there are reports that she might announce her resignation as early as tomorrow. Though Sunday is more likely, when election results are announced as soon as all EU members are through with voting.

quote:
Political opponents who have denounced Farage as a fascist are having a much harder time arguing against his heterodox slate of candidates, which includes several former revolutionary communists who once defended the IRA's deadly bombing campaign.

Though the Brexit party has been vague about its policy positions (apart from supporting the UK's immediate departure from the EU, even if that means a 'hard' or 'no deal' Brexit), the party's candidates would probably join with other euroskeptic MEPs once they take their seats. However, to determine where it stands on other issues, the Brexit Party has said it would set up an online forum where supporters can weigh in, similar to a platform run by the Five Star Movement in Italy.


In fact it currently looks like the Brexit Party will caucus with the Five Stars in the European Parliament, as it has before. Though it seems unclear whether UKIP will win any seats at all, which would theoretically open the possibility for the BP to join the new broader right-wing European Alliance of Peoples and Nations uniting the Italian Lega, French National Rally, German AfD etc., and likely make it the third-largest block after the Christian and Social Democrats.

There would be some material advantages too, since with most parties leaving the current Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy caucus for the EAPN, the former no longer meets the requirements for an official group in the parliament (at least 25 deputies from at least a quarter, i. e. seven, of the member states). However, given that Farage has denounced UKIP's development into an openly xenophobic group and founded the BP in direct competition with it, he might want to avoid the company they would have been part of.
 
Posts: 1914 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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been looking for info on how it appears the vote is going...not much info out there on the BBC site



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Boris Johnson Leads UK PM Polls, Says "Prepare For No Deal"

Now that Theresa May has confirmed that she will step down as prime minister on June 7 during a tearful resignation speech, investors, politics junkies and inveterate gamblers are all eagerly placing bets on who will win the upcoming Tory leadership contest and become the next to occupy No. 10.

BoJo

Ladbrokes latest odds put Boris Johnson - widely regarded as the front runner - at about even (5/4), while Dominic Raab, widely seen as the most serious challenger to Johnson, has been given odds of 4:1.

The Brexiteer leader is known to have a cozy relationship with President Trump. In his first remarks after May's resignation, Johnson said that though he wants a 'pragmatic' Brexit, the UK must be prepared for 'no deal'. Because the only way to get a good deal, Johnson said, is to be prepared to walk away. Whatever happens, Johnson said he believes the UK will leave the EU on Halloween regardless. He added that the UK 'has to' rule out revoking Article 50.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news...-next-prime-minister



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16686 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am glad to see May stepping down. I hope they will put someone in No. 10 that will push thru and LEAVE. The deal making with the EU should start AFTER Britain has left, from a position of strength. Trade between the EU and Britain isn't going to stop because of BREXIT.

This namby pamby begging for an exit deal May has been doing isn't the way to go about it.




I have a few SIGs.
 
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