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OH EMS contemplating on 3 strike policy for OD response Login/Join 
Bunch of savages
in this town
Picture of ASKSmith
posted
http://nbc4i.com/2017/06/26/oh...onding-to-overdoses/

MIDDLETOWN, OH (WLWT) — A controversial proposal has been made in Middletown to deal with heroin overdoses.

Middletown is considering whether people with addiction should only be given two strikes before they’re out of chances at Narcan.

Middletown is struggling to deal with the heroin problem.

“We are faced with stress on our services, particularly the EMS services where we can do six to eight opioid overdose runs a day,” said Paul Lolli, fire chief of Middletown.

The number of overdoses jumped this year. Last year, there were 532 overdoses. So far, only halfway through 2017, there are already 577.

Also last year, the department spent more than $11,000 on Narcan. This year, $30,000 has been spent on it.

This is a result of more overdoses and the increasing strength of the drugs addicts are using, officials said.

The number of deaths from overdoses is on track to increase, as well. Last year, there were 74 deaths. So far this year, there are 51.

Leaders are frustrated trying to find a solution.

City council member Dan Picard is proposing a three strikes system. After the first two overdose rescues, the person would perform community service for the equivalent amount of money used on the lifesaving response.

The third strike is a bit more controversial.

“If the dispatcher determines that the person who’s overdosed is someone who’s been part of the program for two previous overdoses and has not completed the community service and has not cooperated in the program, then we wouldn’t dispatch,” said Dan Picard, Middletown city council member.

The fire department said they are required by law to provide Narcan if they do respond to an overdose.

Picard said this plan is not aiming to solve the drug problem; it’s an attempt to save the city’s finances.

“We’ve got to do what we’ve got to do to maintain our financial security and this is just costing us too much money,” Picard said.

Until legal advisers look at the plan proposed by Picard, the fire department is applying for grants and accepting donations to fund more Narcan.


-----------------
I apologize now...
 
Posts: 9588 | Registered: December 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
Just dispatch the coroner at no charge.
 
Posts: 3149 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
Picture of chongosuerte
posted Hide Post
Narcan is dirt cheap. Methinks their numbers don't add up.

Or they could just stop buying it, provide rescue breathing with an oral airway and a bag valve mask until they get to the ED, and let the hospital use their narcan.


-------------------------------

You forgot:
RIUTINMAYFGIB road is unpaved there is no map and your fuel gauge is busted
-Georgeair

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN
 
Posts: 8969 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
It's going to get worse, much worse, Marijuana will increasingly begin to look like the recreational drug it is, compared to these idiots euthanizing themselves with heroin and other narcotics.

And the shit is very, very cheap these days.

This ain't nothin'. Just watch.

Frankly, I don't care. It's your choice. Go on and kill yourself for a high, stupid.


____________________________________________________

There are two tragedies in life. One is not to get your heart's desire. The other is to get it. ― George Bernard Shaw
 
Posts: 78155 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of mutedblade
posted Hide Post
Can't give out what you don't have. Spend that money on Fire/EMS/LEO equipment and let the shitsticks fly away on their final trip! A little bit of chlorine in the gene pool is needed anyhow Wink


___________________________
No thanks, I've already got a penguin.
 
Posts: 970 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
Picture of chongosuerte
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
It's going to get worse, much worse, Marijuana will increasingly begin to look like the recreational drug it is, compared to these idiots euthanizing themselves with heroin and other narcotics.

And the shit is very, very cheap these days.

This ain't nothin'. Just watch.

Frankly, I don't care. It's your choice. Go on and kill yourself for a high, stupid.


Hell, we got an alert recently that they are finding weed with fentanyl mixed in it.


-------------------------------

You forgot:
RIUTINMAYFGIB road is unpaved there is no map and your fuel gauge is busted
-Georgeair

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN
 
Posts: 8969 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of mutedblade
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Narcan is dirt cheap.


Is it really dirt cheap, or is it subsidized like everything else nowadays by government grants and other taxes?


___________________________
No thanks, I've already got a penguin.
 
Posts: 970 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No Compromise
posted Hide Post
Hmmm. Some problems solve themselves. Hmmm.

H&K-Guy
 
Posts: 2201 | Registered: April 08, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
Picture of chongosuerte
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mutedblade:
quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Narcan is dirt cheap.


Is it really dirt cheap, or is it subsidized like everything else nowadays by government grants and other taxes?


Gov't doesn't have anything to do with it in the capacity I'm talking about. There are only a handful of major pharmaceutical distributors that EMS agencies and hospitals use. When I pulled quotes a few years ago at my old police agency, which was going to start carrying naloxone, I think it was something like $4 or less a pop. Opposed to some drugs on an ambulance that are $40-$100 a pop. The atomizer (funny cone thing to stick in their nose) was actually more than the drug.

And that was the pre-dosed syringe. I'd expect viles/ampules to be even cheaper. Those are what the clinics give away in my state (subsidized by the gov't).

If anyone has more up to date pricing, let us know. I'm talking about EMS/Hospital pricing, not what one would pay if they walked into a pharmacy and asked for a nasal kit or the fancy auto-injector.


-------------------------------

You forgot:
RIUTINMAYFGIB road is unpaved there is no map and your fuel gauge is busted
-Georgeair

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN
 
Posts: 8969 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Press hard,
Three copies
posted Hide Post
I believe our initial roll out was $120 per deputy for two doses and was paid for by some grant. Those all expired 12/16. The resupply is still two doses per and is a smaller package/nasal sprayer and is down to $60 per deputy, not sure where the money's coming from this time.

We're finding more and more Naloxone viles in the junkies kits. Primarily with those moving to fentanyl from heroin. Lucky for them they're not preloading syringes with the Naloxone and it looks like most have been to far gone to self administer once they realize they've pushed too much dope.

I'd love to move to a strike system for this crap(I'd really love to ditch it altogether but that doesn't get the boss in the paper) or maybe a marking system like Inglorious Bastards.



A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
 
Posts: 1897 | Location: VA | Registered: June 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
All the Narcan in the world is not going to stop this. I can't be the only person to see where this is going. In two or three years, the level of these deaths that officials are now calling an 'epidemic' will seem like nothing compared to when this nonsense hits its stride.

Just watch


I say let them kill themselves. The world is overflowing with people and we would benefit by the planet having fewer of these fools who will kill themselves for nothing more than a high. If they want so badly to escape the pain of existence, let them go.


____________________________________________________

There are two tragedies in life. One is not to get your heart's desire. The other is to get it. ― George Bernard Shaw
 
Posts: 78155 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I can't address the strict economics of it. But I did know an EMT who basically burnt out on druggies.

He got so jaded that when he ran to OD calls, he'd administer required aide, then take a picture of the OD'd with a polaroid.

He did this because the OD'd would wake up and then deny having an addiction, or needing any help at all: "everything's fine man, leave me alone" etc. Then this EMT would show the druggie the polaroid, laid out and unresponsive.

It's not just the cost of the Narcan, it's also the opportunity cost of having EMTs tied up with someone who is a habitual abuser. Society needs to weigh what else might be sacrificed in pursuit of someone who seemingly does not care what costs he's obligating society to.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LDD,
 
Posts: 16940 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sig229-SAS
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ASKSmith:
Also last year, the department spent more than $11,000 on Narcan. This year, $30,000 has been spent on it.



Unless they are buying a years supply in advance or the price has almost tripled the numbers don't make since. Of course this depends on the accuracy of the reporter that he/she got the quotes correct.


----------------------------
In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man
is a shame, two is a law firm,
and three or more is a congress.
-- John Adams
 
Posts: 2806 | Location: Tampa Bay Area | Registered: January 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Proud member of
the vanning collective
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
We're issued 2mg nasal syringes.
2mg does nothing anymore.
The medics carry 4mg nasal syringes and it only seems to work if the person is semiconscious. Not sure the dose of the IV but it took a good 10 minutes the other day to bring one fella back.

As usual Para is spot on. I had not heard about phentanol being put in marijuana yet. Wow, that is going to be crazy once it hits the mainstream.
 
Posts: 17524 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of mutedblade
posted Hide Post
I am with you Para. This shit is getting so far out of hand and there is very little anyone can do because the heroin fiends cannot get enough of the shit. They continue to do it because they know that EMS will likely respond and fix them up so they can go and do it all over again.

Please, just allow nature to take it's course and allow the stupid to sort itself out. I have a cousin that is into this shit (in prison for 2nd OD and subsequent probation violations and for using) and I wish that EMS would just have left him laying in the parking lot where they found him and called the coroner. He has already said that there is nothing that will keep him from doing the same once he is released next year. Waste of air and tax payer funds.


___________________________
No thanks, I've already got a penguin.
 
Posts: 970 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bunch of savages
in this town
Picture of ASKSmith
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sig229-SAS:
quote:
Originally posted by ASKSmith:
Also last year, the department spent more than $11,000 on Narcan. This year, $30,000 has been spent on it.



Unless they are buying a years supply in advance or the price has almost tripled the numbers don't make since. Of course this depends on the accuracy of the reporter that he/she got the quotes correct.


I'm wondering if they mixed up the required cost of an OD response. Man hours, fuel, Narcan, etc...

But I don't know the price of Narcan.


-----------------
I apologize now...
 
Posts: 9588 | Registered: December 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Irksome Whirling Dervish
Picture of Flashlightboy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:


And the shit is very, very cheap these days.



This is by design, from the Mexican cartels.

MJ grown in the US is far more potent than what comes from Mexico and with legalization, the cartels need to introduce a product with greater zing for a cheaper price. That's the heroin and meth and meth laced with Fentanyl and now elephant tranquilzer is being introduced to give even bigger highs.

Heroin is making a huge comeback and will continue to produce many druggies and eventualy dead druggies.
 
Posts: 2751 | Location: "You can't just go to Walmart with a gift card and get a new brother." Janice Serrano | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
Picture of darthfuster
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
All the Narcan in the world is not going to stop this. I can't be the only person to see where this is going. In two or three years, the level of these deaths that officials are now calling an 'epidemic' will seem like nothing compared to when this nonsense hits its stride.

Just watch


I say let them kill themselves. The world is overflowing with people and we would benefit by the planet having fewer of these fools who will kill themselves for nothing more than a high. If they want so badly to escape the pain of existence, let them go.


I believe this is the only viable remedy that preserves free will. I say educate the public as to the danger and let them govern themselves. Keep them off the roads and away from the innocent. That's all we can do. Some people have a death wish.



...but resist, we much. We must, and we will much, about that, be committed. Al Sharpton 2011
 
Posts: 21528 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We all make choices. Can't help those that won't help themselves. Repeat junkies are tying up resources. Let them go.
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: west 'by god' virginia | Registered: May 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Membership has its privileges
Picture of P-220
posted Hide Post
Yes, it is bad and I am convinced it is going to get worse.

Unlike the 70's when there was no readily available Narcan, Darwin thinned the heard.

Knowing you will likely get a second, third or fourth chance is only making it worse, IMO.

Our Dept. uses 2 mg nasal. Thankfully, this has been enough for what we have encountered, but have heard from neighboring Dept's that more is sometimes needed, as the shit is cut with even worse shit.

It is everywhere, from the poorest to the richest neighborhoods.


Niech Zyje P-220

Steve
 
Posts: 33935 | Location: 45174 | Registered: December 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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