Was going to replace this outlet, and surprised to see that the box doesn't extend to the front of the backsplash, and there is exposed drywall within. I should add that we're in litigation with the guy who did this, so I was surprised but not shocked and wondering if this gets added to the list. Is this acceptable/legal, or must the box be extended?

they make box extenders for this purpose. the drywall screws holding the outlet wouldn't fly with me.

I have one in my kitchen that's EXACTLY the same way. Bothers me, and there was some extender thing wrapped in electrical tape, which bothered me even more since I hate electrical tape.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
I have one in my kitchen that's EXACTLY the same way. Bothers me, and there was some extender thing wrapped in electrical tape, which bothered me even more since I hate electrical tape.

It may be hard to see in the picture, but the outlet is wrapped in electrical tape.

Is it ok? That's your call.
Is it common? More than you know given the homes I've been in.
Is it a problem? Probably not.

Not an electrician, but I wrap the poles in electrical tape. Just a couple of passes. I would get a box extender and mount the outlet in that. Likely you'd be fine the way it is, but I wouldn't like it. I thinks Skins is an electrician. Let's see what he says....

As long as E tape is around the duplex outlet itself, covering the connections, it's fine. Using drywall screws is hacky, they should have gotten long 10/32s.

The key safety concern, is that this outlet is ganged with a GFCI protected outlet. If it isn't, that is what is dangerous. Otherwise, it's rather poopy, but not a violation.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
As long as E tape is around the duplex outlet itself, covering the connections, it's fine. Using drywall screws is hacky, they should have gotten long 10/32s.

The key safety concern, is that this outlet is ganged with a GFCI protected outlet. If it isn't, that is what is dangerous. Otherwise, it's rather poopy, but not a violation.

Long 6-32s, switches and plugs are always 6-32s.

It is most certainly illegal to install in this manner. The box should be flush with the wall material, weather it be drywall, wood, stone, or any other material.

The entire way an outlet is installed is part of the redundant safety in its design to keep you alive should something fail.

The actual violation is the UL listing of the screws and failure to follow manufacturers instructions. Drywall screws are not UL listed for supporting fixtures or devices, and if you could find installation instructions for the outlets they would likely say to use included 6-32 screws.

Additionally the box must be flush with combustible wall materials, or no more than 1/4" recessed on non-combustible materials with no more than an eighth inch space from wall to outlet boxes. The second part is usually only enforced on Sheetrock, not on countertops. Look up NEC 314.20 & .21. An inspector could actually make one caulk between the box and granite if they felt like it.

The idea is if something fails you want to starve it of oxygen and keep heat from combustible materials. That way wires melt but no fire starts if the outlet/connection fails.

How to fix:

Install 2-2.5" 6-32 screws and box extensions.

The linked product is named by the size of box BE1= 1 gang, BE2 = 2 gang, BE3 = 3 gang.

This should have been checked at Final Electrical inspection. Inspector usually pulls one counter, and one backslash plate and looks for box extensions, if they used one, they likely did them all correct, if they didn't, they likely did them all incorrectly (like yours).

In all likelihood, not a concern as Sheetrock and granite are both non-combustible. You can fix it with under $20 in materials and 1 hr of labor. I am actually surprised when I see it done correctly, since it's done wrong so often. Especially when backsplashes are added at a later remodel. The tile guys are usually the ones making the mistake there, the don't know or care about electrical codes.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
I have one in my kitchen that's EXACTLY the same way. Bothers me, and there was some extender thing wrapped in electrical tape, which bothered me even more since I hate electrical tape.

How can you hate black electrical tape? It is one of the pillars civilization rests upon, up there with fire and the wheel, the father of duct tape and many other ingenious conveniences that help make our world, our culture, the finest, most luxurious and the safest ever known.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
I have one in my kitchen that's EXACTLY the same way. Bothers me, and there was some extender thing wrapped in electrical tape, which bothered me even more since I hate electrical tape.

How can you hate black electrical tape? It is one of the pillars civilization rests upon, up there with fire and the wheel, the father of duct tape and many other ingenious conveniences that help make our world, our culture, the finest, most luxurious and the safest ever known.

I hate when people wrap outlets or wirenuts in tape. Makes it a pain in the ass to find and fix the problem. Luckily it's also a clue you are on the right track for troubleshooting because it's usually done by handymen and homeowners.

The only time I wrap outlets is if I'm installing them hot into metal boxes. Other than that it is completely pointless.

As someone who has worked in industrial maint. I will sometime wrap wire nuts in tape but have never done it to boxes. Have never used drywall screws in an outlet box. I also know a couple of inspectors that would fail an installation like that.

I generally believe that building inspection is a form of shakedown. And here we had a journeyman electrician, not licensed for this work, who somehow was able to pull permits and request inspections, and get green tags on stuff like this. Kind of demonstrates that the permitting and inspection process isn't protecting homeowners.

The inspectors never even looked at my house when it was built. The driveway and back padio was pored without a base and is now cracked and hollow underneath due to settlement.
Wall paper was installed without using a sealer first.
The exterior wood was never primed and there is a lot of wood rot.
There is a crack in the foundation wall and water leaks in when it rains.
Some of wall outlets were wired wrong.
Basement porthole windows were not sealed and leaves entrance way for mice.
Windows were painted in the track and now are stuck due to the cold flow of the paint and can not be opened without some effort of a putty knife to get them unstuck.
Bedroom fan was not wired with a wall switch to cut it off.
Drywall in the garage was not sealed between seams with tape and compound.
Insulation in the attic covered the soffit vents.

Metal boxes, wrap. Plastic boxes... maybe.

Of course where I work we have to do 90% of it live, so having wrapped outlets is a nice thing.

As far as the original photo being acceptable, not if you paid someone to do it. Again, where I work, if I had $5 for every outlet that's like that, I could retire and buy a second home.

quote:

Originally posted by Dallas239:
I generally believe that building inspection is a form of shakedown.

Bingo! I flipped a small foreclosure home I renovated last year, and the reno got red-ticketed because i didn't pull a building permit on the job. Interesting because I did no new construction, removed no walls or existing structure, and had all the subs (i.e. electrical, plumbing, HVAC, roof, windows and doors, etc) pull their own permits so I had sign offs for the lender and new owner for the work that was done. Basically I shelled out ~$800 for a general building permit for absolutely nothing. Total and complete BS.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Using drywall screws is hacky {snip} it's rather poopy

Haha! The jokers who put the light over my garage door pulled the same stunt. Frickin' drywall screws! Good grief....

Drywall screws for electrical?

NO WAY.

This is legit, right?

Which part?

Fact they didn't use strippers to strip wires? Insulation under the screws? Wires not completely under the screws? Nah, that all looks fine to me.

An electrician did not do that. I can understand the backsplsh as the granite guys did that. There is no way an electrician is responsible for those terminations. Zero chance.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Which part?

Fact they didn't use strippers to strip wires? Insulation under the screws? Wires not completely under the screws? Nah, that all looks fine to me.

An electrician did not do that. I can understand the backsplsh as the granite guys did that. There is no way an electrician is responsible for those terminations. Zero chance.

IT DEPENDS what country you're in!!!! The stuff I've seen in third world countries......like the suicide shower head.....a 120 volt shower head with a heating element in the shower head for example!