quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
You’re arguing from feelings, not facts. I agree that the law is wrong but it exists. I have a registered sub gun, but would not DREAM of owning an unregistered machine gun. The statute doesn’t care if it upsets me, and neither will the judicial system. The law may be stupid, but I’d be stupid to violate it because I thought it was wrong.

What is the old saying? Something like, “If you don’t like the law, get out there and campaign to change it.”?

The fact of tha matter is that there are probably a whole lot of laws out there that many of us don’t agree with, but our choices are a) comply with the laws, b) change the laws, or c) suffer the consequences of breaking the laws. Personally, I don’t even like the idea of a speeding ticket. I darned sure don’t want to put myself in a position to be popped for something a lot more serious.

So I probably shouldn't mount that MA Deuce in the back of my truck I found at a garage sale (allegedly of course) then huh?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
"Once a machine gun, always a machine gun". I learned that phrase in the year 2000.

In 2000, I saw this ad online for M14 receivers for sale. No, not SA Inc, not Smith Arms or Chinese forgings or MKS re-welds from DEWATs or any of that stuff. This guy was advertising honest to God M14 receivers. I called him up, but he was "busy" and had to call me back. I asked him the details when he called back. Well, he said, the post inside the receivers that would allow for full auto fire have been removed from these receivers, he said, and that makes them legal for private ownership, he said. How many did I want, he asked. He had several. I asked him to let me think about it. I called him back. Again, he was "busy", and had to call me back. I am in Georgia and he was in Alabama. He could "meet me at the state line". I kid you not. Again, I sad I would think about it. I told a neighbor about this, and he said "It's a sting. Once a machine gun, always a machine gun".

And then, it all made sense. He wasn't "busy" when I called him. He had to turn on his audio recorder and then call me. BATFE, FBI, take your pick.

True story

So, in my ignorance, I could have found myself in very, very hot water.

Nope, not a Fed "sting," if the guy was telling you it was not a machine gun, and that it was legal to own.

The US Supreme Court decision in Staples v. US, 1994, which was a machine gun case in which the defendant claimed he did not know the firearm was a machinegun, and the Court ruled the Government should have been required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Staples knew that his rifle had the characteristics that brought it within the statutory definition of a machinegun.

So if a government agent is telling the buyer it's NOT a machinegun that would prevent the "sting" from being prosecuted.

I get that it is a violation of federal law.
However:
There was a small machine shop in an industrial area on my beat. Very late at night, I would see a guy working there. All alone, the area otherwise deserted.
Odd but not illegal, right?
A few months later, I arrested him for OMVI out of a traffic crash. Search of his vehicle incident to lawful arrest netted me three full auto, selector switch M1 carbines. Or now M2.
He freely admitted to making them. Told me he sold them too. So... I had him, the guns, and his manufacturing facility. The whole enchilada.
I called the ATF. Zero interest. They did nothing. Would not even come to our office to see the guns.
Either the dude was already working for ATF or they just weren't interested.
We charged him locally. He got probation.
I never called ATF again.

Some (numerous) laws are absurd, wrong, dumb, unnecessary, harmful, and otherwise.

And they most certainly warrant vitriolic derision, ridicule, pressure to change, and more.

Everyone here and elsewhere blatantly ignores some laws on a weekly basis, I'd wager.

So I've no interest in condemning the guy. Ultimately, it's a bad law. It shouldn't even exist. So let's not let that skip past without being clearly acknowledged for the utter bullshit it is.

I wouldn't have taken those risks, but I'm pleased some do. At least now, for example, we have a moment to remember and discuss bullshit laws like this one as it bubbles to the top, however briefly, of the pile of a thousand other distractions competing for our attention.

In theory the law can be changed if the will of the people want it changed. In practice and reality it almost never happens, and most certainly never happens in a timely or reasonable manner, and effectively we all just live with hordes of laws and administrative bullshit that we're all just too busy doing other shit to keep up with and do anything about.

Sucks for this guy. I hope he gets off entirely, or very lightly.

There are no valuable lessons to be learned from being on the receiving end of a bad law.

Fix the laws rather than screw with the people.


We need to take a fat red sharpie to 25+% of every law and code and such on the books.

If he bought it prior to the law going into effect in 1986, wouldn't it have been legal to buy prior to then and he just forgot to register it in 1986? IF he bought it prior to the law going into effect?

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
If he bought it prior to the law going into effect in 1986, wouldn't it have been legal to buy prior to then and he just forgot to register it in 1986? IF he bought it prior to the law going into effect?

Taxation/registration of machineguns has been required since 1934. "Forgetting" to register the firearm is no defense.

Kind of hard to register a gun with an obliterated serial number too...

From the article:
Pick was awarded the Silver Star for his service in Vietnam and was briefly a prisoner of war, KTVT reports. Pick's friends said he should have received a lighter sentence because of his service.

What does any of the above (or his age) have to do with his current crimes? Just because you are over XX age, served in VN and got medals doesn't preclude you from being a piece of shit later in life.
I'd say 7 years *is* a light sentence for a federal felony while in possesion of drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
From the article:
Pick was awarded the Silver Star for his service in Vietnam and was briefly a prisoner of war, KTVT reports. Pick's friends said he should have received a lighter sentence because of his service.

What does any of the above (or his age) have to do with his current crimes? Just because you are over XX age, served in VN and got medals doesn't preclude you from being a piece of shit later in life.
I'd say 7 years *is* a light sentence for a federal felony while in possesion of drugs.

Being a piece of shit later in life? Current crimes? Where does it say in the article he was in possession of illegal drugs?

You're acting like the guy is a mass murderer or selling kilo's of cocaine.

Back in the 80's you could buy full auto's pretty easily. Ones that weren't registered. My dad's buddy used to convert mac 10's to full auto and with a silencer and sold them for $1000 back then.

Is him buying and possessing the gun illegal, YES. But, he bought the gun over 30 years ago. Has never used it to commit a crime and the guy is 70 years old. So is it a felony, yes. Does he deserve 7 years in prison? I don't think so. 7 years is not a light sentence for the crime, 10 years is the MAXIMUM sentence that can be given to someone for what he did.

"6. imposes harsh penalties for machine gun violations, including imprisonment of up to 10 years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both for possessing an unregistered machine gun."

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0020.htm

I think some of the posters are reacting without reading the first page of this thread. Good lord people...

“Evidence was presented regarding Defendant’s verbal threat to kill hospital employees. Evidence was also presented regarding items recovered at Defendant’s residence, including, but not limited to, fourteen firearms, one of which was a machine gun, ammunition, marijuana, and cocaine. Evidence was also presented regarding Defendant’s habitual drug use, as well as alleged sexual misconduct with his daughter, including inappropriate pictures of his daughter as a minor. Notably, not one family member would agree to be Defendant’s third party custodian, and all expressed that they would fear for their safety if Defendant was released.”

He wasn’t some poor little doddering old guy saluting the flag every morning that just happened to have a prohibited firearm he forgot to register out of ignorance. He appears to be a menace that just happened to have a Silver Star.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Being a piece of shit later in life? Current crimes? Where does it say in the article he was in possession of illegal drugs?

You're acting like the guy is a mass murderer or selling kilo's of cocaine.

No, we're just acting like he's a pedophile and abusing cocaine.

Oh, also threatening to kill people too.

Go back and read the thread. Pay special attention to jhe888's post towards the bottom of Page 1, or gearhound's reposting of the pertinent details in the post immediately above this.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
If you can't find any real criminals, you can always manufacture some.

Um, no. Not in this case. Regardless of ones feelings on the GCA of 86, it’s the law, and quite clear. It is a prohibited item under the law.

Um, yes. Simply because it's "The Law" doesn't mean it's "right." Lots of things are illegal simply because someone needed to manufacture a villain.

just to clear up,


NFA act of 1934 made it so you had to register NFA devices, including machine guns,

there were some minor changes in 1968 including an Amnesty for NFA not on the books prior,

part of th GCA of 86 made the manufacture for civilians illegal, (can still make post samples or for LEW, gov, or export ),
IIRC this is called the Hughes Amendment,

and of course, NFA availability is also controlled at state level


if by chance this M14 had a paper trail, it would likely have been a Form 10, (gov only)

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I think some of the posters are reacting without reading the first page of this thread. Good lord people...

“Evidence was presented regarding Defendant’s verbal threat to kill hospital employees. Evidence was also presented regarding items recovered at Defendant’s residence, including, but not limited to, fourteen firearms, one of which was a machine gun, ammunition, marijuana, and cocaine. Evidence was also presented regarding Defendant’s habitual drug use, as well as alleged sexual misconduct with his daughter, including inappropriate pictures of his daughter as a minor. Notably, not one family member would agree to be Defendant’s third party custodian, and all expressed that they would fear for their safety if Defendant was released.”

He wasn’t some poor little doddering old guy saluting the flag every morning that just happened to have a prohibited firearm he forgot to register out of ignorance. He appears to be a menace that just happened to have a Silver Star.

There in sits most of the issue. The mom died dqughter dropped q dime on her abusive father.

On a different forum, specializing Glocks, there is speculation that the gun was stolen from the Army.

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
On a different forum, specializing Glocks, there is speculation that the gun was stolen from the Army.

that's a given

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
On a different forum, specializing Glocks, there is speculation that the gun was stolen from the Army.

that's a given

It still could have been registered during the '68 Amnesty.
Theoretically speaking of course.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
From the article:
Pick was awarded the Silver Star for his service in Vietnam and was briefly a prisoner of war, KTVT reports. Pick's friends said he should have received a lighter sentence because of his service.

What does any of the above (or his age) have to do with his current crimes? Just because you are over XX age, served in VN and got medals doesn't preclude you from being a piece of shit later in life.
I'd say 7 years *is* a light sentence for a federal felony while in possesion of drugs.

Being a piece of shit later in life? Current crimes? Where does it say in the article he was in possession of illegal drugs?

You're acting like the guy is a mass murderer or selling kilo's of cocaine.

Back in the 80's you could buy full auto's pretty easily. Ones that weren't registered. My dad's buddy used to convert mac 10's to full auto and with a silencer and sold them for $1000 back then.

Is him buying and possessing the gun illegal, YES. But, he bought the gun over 30 years ago. Has never used it to commit a crime and the guy is 70 years old. So is it a felony, yes. Does he deserve 7 years in prison? I don't think so. 7 years is not a light sentence for the crime, 10 years is the MAXIMUM sentence that can be given to someone for what he did.

"6. imposes harsh penalties for machine gun violations, including imprisonment of up to 10 years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both for possessing an unregistered machine gun."

https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0020.htm

[sarcasm]jimmy, why don't you stick to things you know about, like proper approach speeds for an F-16.[/sarcasm]

It’s apparent this guy was no choir boy. Anyone dumb enough to buy an illegal weapon with the serial number scratched off, full auto nonetheless, and show it off for 30 years, keep illegal drugs in the house and possibly have sexually abused his own child got off light with only 7 years. Im not sure why anyone feels sorry for this guy. Yes, maybe his daughter is lying but the other stuff appears to be factual.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
It’s apparent this guy was no choir boy. Anyone dumb enough to buy an illegal weapon with the serial number scratched off, full auto nonetheless, and show it off for 30 years, keep illegal drugs in the house and possibly have sexually abused his own child got off light with only 7 years. Im not sure why anyone feels sorry for this guy. Yes, maybe his daughter is lying but the other stuff appears to be factual.

Hard to lie when they found photos...