quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
...It may well be Tesla's are a negative hit on both the environment and the economy.

Now, there's a legacy to be proud of!

When (if) these new battery technologies actually make it into large scale production, particularly the home battery packs for off grid purposes, in a compact and more efficient and more affordable manner than the current options, then it'll truly be impressive.

As it stands, those goals seems years away, at least.

Meanwhile it's a money pit fed by tax dollars, full of glitzy promises and excessive hype.

As it stands, it's barely not Solendra 2.0

Say what? Does it require a 5,000 volt outlet or something?

Fisker claims solid-state battery ‘breakthrough’ for electric cars with ‘500 miles range and 1 min charging’
Fred Lambert - Nov. 14th 2017 12:09 pm ET @FredericLambert

When Henrik Fisker relaunched its electric car startup last year, he announced that their first car will be powered by a new graphene-based hybrid supercapacitor technology, but he later announced that they put those plans on the backburner and instead will use more traditional li-ion batteries.

Now the company is announcing a “breakthrough” in solid-state batteries to power their next-generation electric cars and they are filing for patents to protect their IP.

Get ready for some crazy claims here.

Solid-state batteries are thought to be a lot safer than common li-ion cells and could have more potential for higher energy density, but they also have limitations, like temperature ranges, electrode current density, and we have yet to see a company capable of producing it in large-scale and at an attractive price point competitive with li-ion.

Now Fisker announced that they are patenting a new solid-state electrode structure that would enable a viable battery with some unbelievable specs.

Here’s what they claim (via GreenCarCongress):

“Fisker’s solid-state batteries will feature three-dimensional electrodes with 2.5 times the energy density of lithium-ion batteries. Fisker claims that this technology will enable ranges of more than 500 miles on a single charge and charging times as low as one minute—faster than filling up a gas tank.”

Here’s a representation of the three-dimensional electrodes:


Fisker has been all over the place with its new Emotion electric car and we have highlighted that in our look at Fisker’s unbelievable claims.

But its latest solid-state project is led by Dr. Fabio Albano, VP of battery systems at Fisker and the co-founder of Sakti3, which adds credibility to the effort.

Albano commented on the announcement:

“This breakthrough marks the beginning of a new era in solid-state materials and manufacturing technologies. We are addressing all of the hurdles that solid-state batteries have encountered on the path to commercialization, such as performance in cold temperatures; the use of low cost and scalable manufacturing methods; and the ability to form bulk solid-state electrodes with significant thickness and high active material loadings. We are excited to build on this foundation and move the needle in energy storage.”

Electrek’s Take

Like any battery breakthrough announcement, it should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of those announcements never result in any kind of commercialization.

For this particular technology, Fisker says that it will be automotive production grade ready around 2023.

A lot of things can happen over the next 5 years.

In the meantime, Fisker plans to launch its Emotion electric car at CES 2018 in just 2 months. Fisker already unveiled a prototype of the new electric car and started taking pre-orders this summer.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14...rough-electric-cars/

Well I'm not holding my breath but sooner or later. Probably a lot later, we will have alternative choices. One min charging? Sounds like he's working with Al Gore. Possibly going to microwave sunlight from space via your iPhone. Soon he will be spouting.

One thin September soon
A floating continent disappears
In midnight sun

Vapors rise as
Fever settles on an acid sea
Neptune's bones dissolve

Snow glides from the mountain
Ice fathers floods for a season
A hard rain comes quickly

Then dirt is parched
Kindling is placed in the forest
For the lightning's celebration

Unknown creatures
Take their leave, unmourned
Horsemen ready their stirrups

Passion seeks heroes and friends
The bell of the city
On the hill is rung

The shepherd cries
The hour of choosing has arrived
Here are your tools

My last 4 car purchases were: $4k, $14k, $6k, and $13k. Until all these self driving and electric wonder cars are selling below $15-20k - I really don't care too much.

Do I like to look at the nice vettes and porsche, etc as they drive by - yes. Does any of it impact my life ? not sure. All the technology I'm buying is 10 years old or so - so whatever new shit Elon is creating won't trickle down to me for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Above 250 huh? Can it keep it up for the entire Southern 500?

There is a racing class called Formula E, open-wheel cars not unlike Formula 1 in design, but with all-electric propulsion systems. Rules are patterned after F1, races on road-style twisty tracks, length about 400 km., limited to two hours maximum duration. They use two cars per race, the driver gets out of one and into the other in a mid-race pit stop. These cars have significantly lower lap times than F1 cars, mostly due to better acceleration. An F1 car can go from 0 to 100 MPH and back to a dead stop in under four seconds.

A guy I work with has an electric motorcycle (Zero brand). He claims to be able to smoke anything he's ever gone up against. Seeing it accelerate, I believe him.

My point isn't that "electric cars are better" but that the technology appears to have gained sufficient maturity as to be a viable alternative for the future of transport.

If it is like all the other Tesla cars, that performance will be "one and done". Their last "super car" could not make a lap around Nürburgring. Let me know when it make at least 2 laps, then I will be impressed

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
If it is like all the other Tesla cars, that performance will be "one and done". Their last "super car" could not make a lap around Nürburgring. Let me know when it make at least 2 laps, then I will be impressed

Southflorida-law- Can you email me? If I remember correctly you're specialty is real estate law? I need to find an attorney that specializes in that for a client of mine in Pompano Beach,FL. I don't see an email address in your profile.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
If it is like all the other Tesla cars, that performance will be "one and done". Their last "super car" could not make a lap around Nürburgring. Let me know when it make at least 2 laps, then I will be impressed

Southflorida-law- Can you email me? If I remember correctly you're specialty is real estate law? I need to find an attorney that specializes in that for a client of mine in Pompano Beach,FL. I don't see an email address in your profile.

email sent. Have a happy Thanksgiving

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
Just a question I've never seen answered and surely never put in a TV commercial. How much does it cost to recharge the electric cars? The Volt, the Leaf, and now these luxury style cars? Its got to be a simple equation, one that seems to be hiding. Once a week or so I fill up my gas tank and it costs between $25 and $30. I assume the electric cars will need recharging every evening or two. Sure, where you live and your cost per killowatt hour will be involved.

So does it coat $5 a month or $25 a week?

I daily drive a Leaf. I have 35 solar panels so I charge the car for free in the day more or less. My kwh plan is free after 9pm so I usually charge it then. Typical is plug it in right before I go to bed.

If the pack was about completely drained, it would be about $1.50 to charge it to full, and that is an 80 mile charge. That is based on .09 per kWh. But nobody does that. They’ll top it off nightly or every other night. The people I know with Tesla Model S’s tell me they charge it once every 3-4 days.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Musk is a douche for sure. I don’t like him, but that doesn’t mean Tesla isnt doing things no one else has been able to do to date.

When the electric car came out, range and recharge time were the main complaints. People said it would never work. Now you can go 600 miles and recharge in 20 minutes...and they aren’t done getting better.

The technology will only continue to improve and it will benefit our lives in many ways not related to automobiles. I find that exciting.

If you guys would like to fund government research, have at it, I don’t think the government does anything efficiently. I would much rather subsidize private companies that are getting results. Again, SpaceX and the douchey Musk are getting very close to landing a rocket vertically...something never done and something we need to do to get to Mars and back.

The dude is a clown, but his companies are pushing boundaries no one else was and I’m glad to see someone trying.

If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

Pretty much. Electric car = liberal politics here.

Any company trying to become an automobile mfr. and go against the US, Japanese, and European manufacturers is a steep steep slope. Some of those companies have a +100 year head start. Happy to see someone try. Happy to see it’s US jobs building the cars and the batteries. And most important to me, electric cars use American power to fuel them. A portion of every gallon of gas I buy for my other vehicles still goes to the Saudis. I’d love to see America reduce its’ oil use enough that we could tell the Middle East to go fuck itself.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:....
If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

In 2015, according to the LA Times, US government had helped Tesla in the tune of 4.9 Billion dollars, our tax dollars.

That does not include State tax incentives for building Tesla charging stations.

How much you want to spend?

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:....
If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

In 2015, according to the LA Times, US government had helped Tesla in the tune of 4.9 Billion dollars, our tax dollars.

That does not include State tax incentives for building Tesla charging stations.

How much you want to spend?

Good point.

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:....
If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

In 2015, according to the LA Times, US government had helped Tesla in the tune of 4.9 Billion dollars, our tax dollars.

That does not include State tax incentives for building Tesla charging stations.

How much you want to spend?

$4.9 billion???? That's insane.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:....
If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

In 2015, according to the LA Times, US government had helped Tesla in the tune of 4.9 Billion dollars, our tax dollars.

That does not include State tax incentives for building Tesla charging stations.

How much you want to spend?

$4.9 billion???? That's insane.

What was the GM bail out $30 billion? That they partially paid back using other TARP funds and by cutting 20k jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:....
If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

In 2015, according to the LA Times, US government had helped Tesla in the tune of 4.9 Billion dollars, our tax dollars.

That does not include State tax incentives for building Tesla charging stations.

How much you want to spend?

$4.9 billion???? That's insane.

What was the GM bail out $30 billion? That they partially paid back using other TARP funds and by cutting 20k jobs.

Yeah except GM has been around for nearly a century, employs tons of people, and it going out of business along with the ripple effect of all it's dealers etc. Would have had a massive hit on our economy and job market, and it was viable to rejuvenate them. For a company like Tesla that has never turned a profit, makes luxury electric cars most people can never afford......not so much sense.

Nice, but I don’t care about how much faster it is. What I want is a nice 4x4, raised enough for good ground clearance, not top heavy, and gets me through the deep snow as I need. I don’t really like cars anymore, to me, it would be a toy. And I can’t afford a toy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
What was the GM bail....

In a word, 'illegal'. But as much as I loathe that deal and would never support or condone it, its an apples or oranges comparison to the ongoing subsidies Tesla is reaping.

will it out run a police radio ?

and once again,
where will 750,000 giant car batteries be recycled ? w/o destroying the environment ?

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Musk is a douche for sure. I don’t like him, but that doesn’t mean Tesla isnt doing things no one else has been able to do to date.

When the electric car came out, range and recharge time were the main complaints. People said it would never work. Now you can go 600 miles and recharge in 20 minutes...and they aren’t done getting better.

The technology will only continue to improve and it will benefit our lives in many ways not related to automobiles. I find that exciting.

If you guys would like to fund government research, have at it, I don’t think the government does anything efficiently. I would much rather subsidize private companies that are getting results. Again, SpaceX and the douchey Musk are getting very close to landing a rocket vertically...something never done and something we need to do to get to Mars and back.

The dude is a clown, but his companies are pushing boundaries no one else was and I’m glad to see someone trying.

If you think Tesla isn’t showing results, you’re letting your politics blind you.

Pretty much. Electric car = liberal politics here.

Any company trying to become an automobile mfr. and go against the US, Japanese, and European manufacturers is a steep steep slope. Some of those companies have a +100 year head start. Happy to see someone try. Happy to see it’s US jobs building the cars and the batteries. And most important to me, electric cars use American power to fuel them. A portion of every gallon of gas I buy for my other vehicles still goes to the Saudis. I’d love to see America reduce its’ oil use enough that we could tell the Middle East to go fuck itself.

Outside of OPEC that controls the lion's share of oil production, the US produces AND refines more oil than any standalone country. OPEC produces the most oil and has the most in reserve but they send it to the US, Russia or China to be refined where the refining country gets a discount for what they use and exports the rest. Any money you pay for refined fuel in America goes in the pockets of American and Middle Eastern companies. If you wanted to buy 100% American produced and refined fuel you'd be paying a lot more.

Musk just laid off hundreds of people from Tesla because they couldn't design and implement a system to build the vehicles he promised. Even if they succeeded it would not mean the hire of more Americans because machines/automation are the real killer of American jobs so I'd be real careful about giving credit where it's not due.

Between the US government throwing taxpayer dollars and dipshits paying deposits and not holding their savior accountable for vehicles he said would be delivered yet won't for the near future, he's the biggest scam artist that has yet to be exposed. Want a real American hero? It'll be the guy who realizes the United States has more BTUs in coal and natural gas than any other country and can use that to heat our homes and fuel our supply lines. But the left and the EPA still thinks coal is the devil and won't invest a dollar into clean coal technology.

Want a low cost vehicle that gets 50+ MPG? Geo made one in 1994 called the Metro. It's actually gotten almost 100 miles per gallon in a fuel efficiency race. Put a billion dollars into improving that design and there's an affordable car that will get 60-70 MPG, blow any hybrid/electric car out of the water for vehicle cost to fuel efficiency and would leave 4 billion for more important things like hookers and blow.

Bottom line, fuck Elon Musk, his bullshit and the people dumb enough to believe it. The Koneigsegg Regera actually does what Musk says his car can do but the difference is the Regera has done it. Musk is simply throwing impressive numbers out there and anyone with a brain who knows how difficult it is to do the things he promises knows he needs to either nut up and prove it or STFU. But hey, what do I know. Just pay the deposit on his latest pipe dream, wait a few years and he'll come out with some other batshit idea to get more deposits while the Model 3 is still having "manufacturing issues" and his electric supercar can't go more than 20 miles because the superduper graphite/lithium battery hybrid is allergic to solar energy because all the people he laid off from Solarcity couldn't find a way to power it.

Oh, rumor has it Musk is really Satoshi Nakamoto... the creator of Bitcoin... so it could be spent on Mars when he colonizes it. If you believe that then my name is Stephen and that can't be William Wallance because I'm prettier than that man.