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Need new water heater and unknown to me law changes in 2015! Login/Join 
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No problem honey, I'll just go buy a new water heater. It'll take me an hour.

Old one is 12 years old, 75 gallon electric. Laws changed in 2015 and anything over 55 gallons has to have a heat pump. Son of a you know what. They cost twice as much and we are planning to sell this house within a year. Any other solution is beyond my willingness to screw with and thus would require hiring a plumber or electrician: $$$.

There are a couple 55 gallon models with the same FHR as are old one, but not in stock locally.

To top it all off, can't even take a cold shower because all of our showers have pressure balancing valves. No pressure on the hot side equals no water out the shower head.

F, F, F, just F'itty, F.
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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State law ?
 
Posts: 1330 | Location: The deep South | Registered: February 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Federal.
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Unless you have a big home with 4+ bathrooms and several daughters just get a 50 gallon electric and be done with it.
That's a standard size for most homes.

If you were going to keep the house and you had access to gas I would strongly reccomend a tankless water heater...


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Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina

Building high performance custom homes on beautiful Smith Mt. Lake, VA
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Posts: 3300 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://m.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smi...er-Heater/1000213693

80 gallon electric at Lowes....what is this federal law of which you speak?


"No matter where you go - there you are"
 
Posts: 3064 | Location: Eastern PA-Berks/Lehigh Valley | Registered: January 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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At least you can change your own water heater. Here local code says you have to pull a permit to replace a water heater, which they won't grant to the homeowner who wants to DIY. Fucking stupid.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2509 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, son's the chief engineer at Rheem, don't think that's a fed law.

On the other hand, they put a heat pump water heater in his house as a research tool. So far, so good.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
 
Posts: 18627 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would recommend putting a good brand of water heater in the house. Everyone wants to put the cheapest crap in a house cause they think they're going to sell it in a year, yet plans change and then 6 years later they're wishing they spent the extra $100 or so dollars for a good one. The other alternative is you could probably go tankless, and might have the proper electricity there for it IF you have an 85 gallon water heater.
 
Posts: 14728 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sgalczyn:
https://m.lowes.com/pd/A-O-Smi...er-Heater/1000213693

80 gallon electric at Lowes....what is this federal law of which you speak?


That's old stock and grandfathered. The law changed in 2015.
ETA: I looked at that one again and Lowes lists it as light duty commercial.

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
I would recommend putting a good brand of water heater in the house. Everyone wants to put the cheapest crap in a house cause they think they're going to sell it in a year, yet plans change and then 6 years later they're wishing they spent the extra $100 or so dollars for a good one. The other alternative is you could probably go tankless, and might have the proper electricity there for it IF you have an 85 gallon water heater.


I don't have the wiring for tankless. It looks like a tankless would be 100amps. Putting one in would mean and electrician and a permit. We are definitely moving and already have the house we are moving to. The house dictates that I do it right with a quality water heater.

The house has 4 full baths, an outdoor shower by the pool, and a spa/tub in the master bath. We'd run out occasionally if my three kids took their time. I'd put one that matches the 71 gallon FHR of the old one, but I'm concerned it'll come up as an issue when we sell. My choice seems to be $680 vs. $1,400.

My rant isn't really about the expense, but rather that I can't get it done today like I had planned. It's going to be at least four days for whatever I order today to show up. I'm going to take the old one out and temporarily connect the incoming cold to the outgoing hot just so we can take cold showers. Pressure balancing valves in the showers need pressure on both hot and cold to let water flow.

I was looking forward to an easy project. I've changed out water heaters before and this one is in an easy location with plenty of room. It should have been an hour at most.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looks like they aren't as popular as they nthought they would be...

https://www.treehugger.com/sus...ot-water-heater.html

Here's some info on the law.

http://www.plumbingperspective...es-on-water-heaters/


Richard Scalzo
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Posts: 4451 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Verified with son. No law he is aware of. They still make 80 gallon gas and electric water heaters.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
 
Posts: 18627 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm talking about electric only and I maybe wrong, but I've been looking at this for a couple hours. I haven't found a single manufacturer that lists a residential water heater larger than 55 gallons that is not a hybrid. They list light duty commercial water heaters in 65, 80 and more, but I checked the prices. The Rheem 65 is over $1,700.

ETA:

I'm not wrong. Here are the relevant regulations:

Government's definition of a residential water heater:
10 CFR 430.2:

Water heater means a product which utilizes oil, gas, or electricity to heat potable water for use outside the heater upon demand, including—
(1) Storage type units which heat and store water at a thermostatically controlled temperature, including gas storage water heaters with an input of 75,000 Btu per hour or less, oil storage water heaters with an input of 105,000 Btu per hour or less, and electric storage water heaters with an input of 12 kilowatts or less;

Energy efficiency standard newly manufactured residential electric storage water heaters have had to meet since April 16, 2015:
10 CFR 430.32(d):

Electric Storage Water Heaters

Draw pattern Uniform energy factor
≥20 gal and ≤55 gal Very Small 0.8808 − (0.0008 × Vr)
    Low 0.9254 − (0.0003 × Vr)
Medium 0.9307 − (0.0002 × Vr)
   High 0.9349 − (0.0001 × Vr)
   
>55 gal and ≤120 gal Very Small 1.9236 − (0.0011 × Vr)
    Low 2.0440 − (0.0011 × Vr)
    Medium 2.1171 − (0.0011 × Vr)
    High 2.2418 − (0.0011 × Vr)

Sorry, I don't know how to make that table look right.
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by vulrath:
At least you can change your own water heater. Here local code says you have to pull a permit to replace a water heater, which they won't grant to the homeowner who wants to DIY. Fucking stupid.


I don't know how this could be enforced. It's inside the house, and nobody from the city is getting in without a warrant. So screw them, I wouldn't ask for anybody's permission to change a water heater. In TN of all places. I'd expect this kind of heavy government in NYC, but Memphis? Really?



[i]
 
Posts: 5012 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
quote:
Originally posted by vulrath:
At least you can change your own water heater. Here local code says you have to pull a permit to replace a water heater, which they won't grant to the homeowner who wants to DIY. Fucking stupid.


I don't know how this could be enforced. It's inside the house, and nobody from the city is getting in without a warrant. So screw them, I wouldn't ask for anybody's permission to change a water heater. In TN of all places. I'd expect this kind of heavy government in NYC, but Memphis? Really?


Code enforcement trawls the neighborhoods looking for water heaters and/or boxes sitting at the street. The property management company I work for has gotten dinged a time or two in the 25 years they've been operating.

So, it most certainly can be done. But it requires being much more stealthy than your average install. Also remember that it's a blue city in a red state.


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Posts: 2509 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Replaced mine early two years ago to avoid reconfiguring utility room walls to accommodate the larger units. Hopefully I sell before it dies, let it be next guys problem.



Jesse

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Posts: 9970 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Still not clear on this "federal" law...........

Grainger has 2 Rheem >50gal models:

https://www.grainger.com/categ...ect%3Dwater%2Bheater


"No matter where you go - there you are"
 
Posts: 3064 | Location: Eastern PA-Berks/Lehigh Valley | Registered: January 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sgalczyn:
Still not clear on this "federal" law...........

Grainger has 2 Rheem >50gal models:

https://www.grainger.com/categ...ect%3Dwater%2Bheater


Rheem's website lists them as commercial and not residential.
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Room for 2 30 gallon ones?


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Posts: 10458 | Location: below the palm tree line of Michigan | Registered: September 17, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
quote:
Originally posted by sgalczyn:
Still not clear on this "federal" law...........

Grainger has 2 Rheem >50gal models:

https://www.grainger.com/categ...ect%3Dwater%2Bheater


Rheem's website lists them as commercial and not residential.


Ummmm there is no law stating you can't install a commercial water heater in a residential house.....technically.......

I manage some big houses and even those don't have an 85 gallon water heater....the one has a 65 gallon hybrid and is 8,000 sq feet and 7 bedroom/7bath house built in 2009.
 
Posts: 14728 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
Room for 2 30 gallon ones?


There isn't enough space on the floor for two of them. Plus, I'd have to put another breaker in the panel and run wire which requires a permit.

For the latest wrinkle, neither Lowes nor Home Depot can get one of the 55 gallon normal ones or the 65 gallon hybrid ones for over two weeks. Looks like I get to spend Monday on the phone.
 
Posts: 3288 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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