Goldens being on the list is not a shocker for me. The single worst-behaved 'pet' dog (i.e. not a guard/junkyard dog) I've ever seen was a golden owned by the next-door neighbor back in CA. Never had been trained, snarled at people, didn't obey the owner, wouldn't come when the owner called, barked at and chased kids walking to school. Though the owners were nice people I was very happy when they moved.
What the CIA does in analyzing threats is assess capabilities, not intent. And that's because capabilities are hard to change, while intent can change in an instant. The fact that the vast majority of goldens are friendly, lovable dogs does not remove the potential of those big jaws and muscles - that's something insurers could reasonably factor into actuarial decisions. A Papillon potentially going rogue is one thing - a big dog is something entirely other.This message has been edited. Last edited by: joel9507,
|Raised Hands Surround Us|
Three Nails To Protect Us
State Farm has never asked if we had a dog.
Oddly enough our neighbors rottie almost got perforated last night.
Got out of the backyard and came charging at my neighbor and me. Stopped but was growling hair raised.
I saw The neighbor who I was talking with was going for his gun so I better lock the kids in the backyard (would have been bad news if the kids had run out front to us) then went back up front and the dog was still posturing and growling. Tossed the last kid in the cab off the truck.
Dog started to advance again neighbor started yelling and stomping ready to fire.
Dog thought better and charged up the street at the neighbor mowing his grass, he saw the dog charging he raised the front of the mower up so the dog would meet the blades if he kept coming.
Dog Thought better of that too and retreated back to it’s yard. Dog owner came out and apologized.
My neighbor had that look about him now that he realized how close he had just come to having to pull the trigger.
Looked at me and said “would you have been pissed if I would have shot him?”
Said no way.
I had not planned on being outside and my pistol had already been put up for the night.
Neighbor said that is not the first time the dog has gotten out and been aggressive with no provocation.
Not an account of all rotties I know but I’ll certainly be keeping my head on more of a swivel when out with the kids.
We live on a very quiet and secluded court so don’t always have the pistol on me when playing with the kids.
That has now changed.
Everybody’s got a blank page. A story they’re writing today. A wall that they’re climbing. You can carry the past on your shoulders.
Or you can start over.
Regrets, no matter what you goin’ through. Jesus, He gave it all to save you. He carried the cross on His shoulders. So you can start over.
|His diet consists of black|
coffee, and sarcasm.
This is unfortunate, because there are no bad dogs or dog breeds, only bad owners. A dog has the intellect, roughly, of a 3-year-old human child. But you know what can happen when children are allowed to run amuck. The difference is that children don't have big sharp teeth.
When asked, I told a potential insurer I had a trampoline in the bedroom. Much merriment ensued.
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor
The reason insurers look hard at these breeds is because many states' laws view them as breeds of "dogs with known vicious propensities." Like it or not, many states say these dogs are known biters and do not receive the protections other breeds get in the form of "first bite" rules and strict liability.
And I will say from almost 30 years experience handling dog-bite claims - rottweilers, pit-bulls, etc - inflict worse bites and do more damage that an equal sized lab or collie. They just do and there's no getting around it.
And there are far more irresponsible owners.
And the victims of bites tend to react differently. Your Collie bites someone, you may never hear another word about it. Your Rottweiler, Cane Corso, Bull Terrier mix bites someone, you gonna get sued.
The simple fact is, Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, Dobermans, German Shepherds, Cane Corsos, etc, represent a far greater risk than you Collie, Lab, or Golden Retriever does.
Well, you can certainly see the risk involved:
I concur, that was included in their questions. At the time I had a Golden and a Setter and they were fine with those. I didn't even know at the time it was for liability, I just thought that it may be a bonus to have a dog that barks and alerts the homeowner to strangers.
Probably a good thing they haven't included cats yet..
Regards, Will G.
Same here, though we don't currently have any dogs on the "dangerous breeds" lists. In fact, the only "dangerous breed" we have ever had was when my wife was a working K-9 officer, and her GSD lived at home with us. We've had State Farm for 35 years, at three different residences in MD and AZ, and that question has never been asked.
all your sig are belong to us
But if you ever have a claim including the dog. They will write them off the policy.
About 10 years ago my rottie got lose and got into it with a neighbors dog. 85 year old lady put her hand in the middle of it and got bit. I got sued for $300,000!! I think insurance settled with them for $30K.
But State Farm was with me all the way through and took good care of me.
Train how you intend to Fight
Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
How fookin' stupid can one get?
NRA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Pistol Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
The afternoon knows what the morning never suspected.
-- Robert Frost
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
That's pretty stupid, but if it's your dog getting attacked by your dumbass neighbor's dog who 'got lose', you might do something to try to stop it.
Me, I'd have shot the Rottie and sent the owner the bill.
And I have big dogs, but if your unruly canines trespass and start menacing me and mine, they are foooking toast.
I have no clue why they upcharge/decline for ceetian breeds???
Tennessee teen mauled to death by dogs, 'tossed and dragged into woods':
A couple SIGs and a few others
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
Yeah, people don't understand that Insurance is simply a numbers / risk game. The company needs to take in more money than they pay out to run the company and profit - it's a business after all. Don't like it? Self Insure then (good luck). They have stacks and stacks of data on home types, areas, weather, animals, pools, trampolines, and other factors which statistically speaking change the risk of a claim.
Then again most people have trouble with basic arithmetic, so it's no surprise concepts like risk, probability, and the like go over their head.
I understand risk assessments. If that's the case then credit rating, prior claims, race and education should be factors as well
“I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.”
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
I'm sure everything can be a factor and I'm not sure exactly what the industry can / cannot uses.
But it's a fact that certain breeds of dog are either (1) more likely to bit and / or (2) larger breeds can cause more significant damage with a bit.
Just like the risk of someone drowning increases if you have a large body of water installed near your house, aka a pool.
We had to jump through some hoops to have our home insured due to the size of the lot - some companies don't insure more than 5 acre lots. Oh well, I didn't get butt hurt about it, I just moved on to the next one.
Works both ways. I pay less for being a slightly safer risk than usual - Upgraded electrical service, hardwired smoke detectors, and proximity to a fire hydrant. So my house is less likely to catch fire and if it does my proximity to firehouse and hydrant will make any claims likely smaller for them.
A couple SIGs and a few others
Spent several years doing underwriting inspections on homes pending issuance of homeowners insurance policies. Worked for 9 different insurance companies, all having different underwriting standards.
One of the most common disqualifying standards was dogs, whether actively aggressive or just belonging to specific breeds (thought or known to be dangerous to some degree).
I once inspected the same home 5 times over the course of a couple of months, on orders from 5 different insurance companies. Same 3 pit bulls present (and openly belligerent) on each occasion, same result all 5 times (no insurance policy for you folks as long as you have 3 nasty and aggressive dogs on the premises).
Met a 120-lb. Rottweiler once, dragging 20 feet of heavy chain as he went over a 4-foot fence to attack me. Shot him in the front of his chest with a .45, then through the ribs a second time, finally put one through his head before he went down. Cost me three days down time, 22 sutures, and a 45-day rabies protocol follow-up. Dead dog's owner still owes me about $12,000, against which I hold a lien on his home.
I have run into Chihuahuas and other tiny little crappy examples of the species that had world-class bad attitudes. I have had clothing ripped to shreds by dogs. I have been to emergency rooms and urgent care facilities several times for dog bite injuries. I have also been sued by the owners of a dog who tore a chunk out of my ass before I shot it dead with a .45 pistol on their back porch. License tags and rabies vaccinations never seem to be evident or provable to some people.
Pretty good little gig for a few years after retiring from law enforcement. Made a solid $80-grand per year plus mileage. Finally got tired of dealing with other peoples' kids and dogs. Because I was an independent contractor (not employee) medical costs were on me, so I had a friendly lawyer on retainer for the dog bite nonsense, and he always collected something.
No sympathy here, bud. I like most dogs better than many people I have had to deal with, but I have no use for vicious dogs or unpredictable breeds (or the people who own and train them to be that way). I will back away if I can, but if necessary I will kill them before I let them take a bite.
Retired holster maker.
Retired police chief.
Formerly Sergeant, US Army Airborne Infantry, Pathfinders
|I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not |
can't blame them. If you had 6 car models that accounted for 90 percent of the claims. they wouldn't insure them either!!!
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