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0W-16 oil, really? Login/Join 
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Picture of ridewv
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The point I am trying to make. Is the Toyota engineers that designed, built and tested your engine, know a heck of a lot more than you or I do about the engine in your Toyota. I'm sure they torture tested dozens of them and tested various weight oils. So why second guess the manufacturers recommendations?...



Yes of course Toyota engineers do, but for the US their EPA/CAFE compliant team is probably who determines the oil recommended in our owners manuals. In the case of my car here in the US it's 0W-16 period, whether Maine in Winter or Arizona in the Summer that's it nothing else. Same in my Ridgeline only it's 0W-20, nothing else will do. Yet in other markets different and or alternative oil is spec'd for the same vehicles with the same engines.

For instance here is the oil ranges Toyota recommends for my Corolla had it not been sold in the USA, in this case Australia. This is the type of info we USED to get.





No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
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^^^ Some of the viscosity recommendations are also for other countries and based on availability and economic reasons. It’s just not PC to say this. Some countries don’t have 0w-20 or 0w-16 oils available for purchase and if they do many times they are a lot more expensive than they are here. So manufacturers step it up to 5w-20 or even 5w-30 etc.


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2553 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
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quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


You’re talking about only one country. A lot of counties in central and South America 0w-20 and 0w-16 oil is scarce. And if available it is expensive.


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2553 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Speaks Bendablese
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Kind of unrelated, but the Corolla chart from Toyota is pretty impressive. The engine design appears to be tolerant of nearly any gasoline engine oil. They could have saved time and made a chart that says "Whatever".
 
Posts: 263 | Location: MD | Registered: September 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


You’re talking about only one country. A lot of counties in central and South America 0w-20 and 0w-16 oil is scarce. And if available it is expensive.


The oil recommendation chart above is specifically Australia which sells the same oils as the US, not a country in central or South America. Those countries will have their own specific manuals, printed in Spanish.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
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Research for yourself the oil selections in Mexico and central and South American nations and their prices. Here’s something to get you started: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com...xico-cafe-conspiracy


—————————
Indefatigably succinct.
 
Posts: 2553 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


You’re talking about only one country. A lot of counties in central and South America 0w-20 and 0w-16 oil is scarce. And if available it is expensive.


The oil recommendation chart above is specifically Australia which sells the same oils as the US, not a country in central or South America. Those countries will have their own specific manuals, printed in Spanish.


And the manual in the OP's glovebox is the US version and states 0w-16! Big Grin
 
Posts: 19211 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sourdough44
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It’s like when you read the owner’s manual for a lawnmower or motorcycle, they have an oil viscosity for 32 degrees or cooler. How many of us mow the lawn when 25 degrees out, or ride a motorcycle?

I’m talking averages here, some plow snow with a mower or bundle up to bike ride.
 
Posts: 4051 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of sigcrazy7
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


You’re talking about only one country. A lot of counties in central and South America 0w-20 and 0w-16 oil is scarce. And if available it is expensive.


The oil recommendation chart above is specifically Australia which sells the same oils as the US, not a country in central or South America. Those countries will have their own specific manuals, printed in Spanish.


And the manual in the OP's glovebox is the US version and states 0w-16! Big Grin


You seem to be purposefully missing the point. Your earlier assertion was that the engineers chose the recommended oil according to testing what oil is best for the engine’s durability.
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The point I am trying to make. Is the Toyota engineers that designed, built and tested your engine, know a heck of a lot more than you or I do about the engine in your Toyota. I'm sure they torture tested dozens of them and tested various weight oils. So why second guess the manufacturers recommendations?


When Ridewv pointed out that decisions in the U.S. are influenced by conformance to regulation over testing, everybody went on a red herring about availability and regional differences. Ridewv’s point was that the mfg believes all of those oil choices are mechanically acceptable within temperature parameters, which refutes Jimmy’s idea that you’d better blindly follow the U.S. owner’s manual or you will harm your engine.

Doubling down and restating your point is being obtuse to the counter-point that more than just 0w-16 is acceptable in the engine.

There is one recommendation that I’ve seen ignored to ill effect. Work had some equipment with Detroit 6v92 two strokes. The Operations Manager said “just put in our standard 15w-40. I pointed out that this was a mistake, and DD specifically calls for straight 40. He said he didn’t care. Six month’s later, while we were swapping out the 6v92 for a used Cummins L10, he decided to order some 40 weight for the surviving 6v92. She’s a bitch to start on a cold day, but she soldiers on with 40 weight.



On a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
 
Posts: 6361 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
Toyota Australia themselves sell 0W-16 oil as do other petroleum companies such as Penrite, Mobil, etc., so it's not an "availability" issue at all.


You’re talking about only one country. A lot of counties in central and South America 0w-20 and 0w-16 oil is scarce. And if available it is expensive.


The oil recommendation chart above is specifically Australia which sells the same oils as the US, not a country in central or South America. Those countries will have their own specific manuals, printed in Spanish.


And the manual in the OP's glovebox is the US version and states 0w-16! Big Grin


You seem to be purposefully missing the point. Your earlier assertion was that the engineers chose the recommended oil according to testing what oil is best for the engine’s durability.
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:

The point I am trying to make. Is the Toyota engineers that designed, built and tested your engine, know a heck of a lot more than you or I do about the engine in your Toyota. I'm sure they torture tested dozens of them and tested various weight oils. So why second guess the manufacturers recommendations?


When Ridewv pointed out that decisions in the U.S. are influenced by conformance to regulation over testing, everybody went on a red herring about availability and regional differences. Ridewv’s point was that the mfg believes all of those oil choices are mechanically acceptable within temperature parameters, which refutes Jimmy’s idea that you’d better blindly follow the U.S. owner’s manual or you will harm your engine.

Doubling down and restating your point is being obtuse to the counter-point that more than just 0w-16 is acceptable in the engine.

There is one recommendation that I’ve seen ignored to ill effect. Work had some equipment with Detroit 6v92 two strokes. The Operations Manager said “just put in our standard 15w-40. I pointed out that this was a mistake, and DD specifically calls for straight 40. He said he didn’t care. Six month’s later, while we were swapping out the 6v92 for a used Cummins L10, he decided to order some 40 weight for the surviving 6v92. She’s a bitch to start on a cold day, but she soldiers on with 40 weight.


Me re-interating it was a joke, hence the Big Grin. But in reality using what the manual says 0w-16, that toyota engine will outlast the car.

I have maintained (and operated) A LOT of Detroit Diesel 2 strokes over my life, somewhere between 500-1000 engines from 4-53's to 16v92's. It is absolutely necessary to use oil with a CF-2 designation on it. CF-2 is an anti-foaming additive in the oil, which is critical with the 2 stroke. Majority of 40w oil has a CF-2 designation (not all). It is also acceptable to use 15w-40 oil in a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel in cold climate if the oil has a CF-2 designation, few 15w-40 oils have it. (Mobil delvac does and Chevron has one that did, the delo 100 /not 200 or vice versa). That is the issue you faced and what destroyed the engines. It is also critical to change the coolant every 2 years and use strictly D.D. G92 coolant in cold climates or water and powercool 2000 additive with them. I know I know, useless information for the OP.
 
Posts: 19211 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Prefontaine
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Put in the weight/viscosity they tell you to, while under warranty. Don't give them any reason to deny your warranty. Post warranty run what you want to run. I use Amsoil in everything that requires oil, even my mower and weed eater.
They make a 0W-16

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by...r-oil/?code=OESQT-EA

I have been using the shit since the late 90's with many dyno mapping runs, and Blackstone lab analysis in everything I run. It should meet Toyota's specs.



lex talionis
 
Posts: 9865 | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Put in the weight/viscosity they they tell you to, while under warranty. Don't give them any reason to deny your warranty. Post warranty run what you want to run....


"They" being not Toyota corporate, but in our case I guess Toyota NA or Toyota USA?

My feeling on this (and I may well be wrong) is if I do use the oil that's recommended in other countries, but not in the US, is Toyota couldn't deny ANY warranty claim on any component of the car not affected by oil viscosity. So that leaves only the motor itself. And for Toyota to have to prove that the oil recommended for this car in country A is what caused the same engine in a car in country U to fail from an oil related failure, would be their argument. They also suggest 10K oil changes, I do mine at 5,000. I'm comfortable with my choice.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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0W16 has been available for at least 6 months. Walmart, Autozone, Advance, Honda and Toyota sell it.

Under warranty, just use 0W16.


______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
 
Posts: 5684 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Put in the weight/viscosity they they tell you to, while under warranty. Don't give them any reason to deny your warranty. Post warranty run what you want to run....


"They" being not Toyota corporate, but in our case I guess Toyota NA or Toyota USA?

My feeling on this (and I may well be wrong) is if I do use the oil that's recommended in other countries, but not in the US, is Toyota couldn't deny ANY warranty claim on any component of the car not affected by oil viscosity. So that leaves only the motor itself. And for Toyota to have to prove that the oil recommended for this car in country A is what caused the same engine in a car in country U to fail from an oil related failure, would be their argument. They also suggest 10K oil changes, I do mine at 5,000. I'm comfortable with my choice.


There could be different parts or computer programming installed in Toyota engines destined to the U.S. compared to ones going to other countries leading to the requirement. I honestly think there would be un-measurable fuel savings from 0W-16w to 5w-20 in the same engine as far as CAFE and the EPA goes and doubt that is the reason.
 
Posts: 19211 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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I can't imagine Toyota making a different part, or computer program for the same engines which would necessitate 0W-16 instead of 0W-20 or 5W-30? It'd take time but I suppose one could go through their fiche comparing parts to see if Toyota uses different pistons, rings, etc for the same engines that are used in cars sold in different countries?
The thinner the oil the less viscosity friction and I imagine in the U.S. and probably Europe 1/4 mpg better times 10's of thousands of cars sold is their driving force. According to Toyota's chart for my engine, 0W-30 is recommended for (actually well beyond) any range of temperature I will ever encounter. It's readily available and I'll have one less oil to deal with.


No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:
I can't imagine Toyota making a different part, or computer program for the same engines which would necessitate 0W-16 instead of 0W-20 or 5W-30? It'd take time but I suppose one could go through their fiche comparing parts to see if Toyota uses different pistons, rings, etc for the same engines that are used in cars sold in different countries?
The thinner the oil the less viscosity friction and I imagine in the U.S. and probably Europe 1/4 mpg better times 10's of thousands of cars sold is their driving force. According to Toyota's chart for my engine, 0W-30 is recommended for (actually well beyond) any range of temperature I will ever encounter. It's readily available and I'll have one less oil to deal with.


It can be common for Toyota to have a different engine ECU program in for the U.S. market versus a third world market where fuel quality is questionable and emmissions aren't as strict. There may be additional emissions equipment on a U.S. market car versus a third world country car. etc. Look in your owners manual inside the vehicle, it will have a chart in it of approved oils, that is what Toyota U.S. will go by for oil related warranty issues.
 
Posts: 19211 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Vagabond Dreamer
Picture of Patrick-SP2022
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Looking at the published owners manual on the Toyota site, there are separate manuals for the Corolla and Corolla hatchback.

https://www.toyota.com/owners/...anty-owners-manuals/

Corolla Hatchback
https://www.toyota.com/t3Porta...90U/pdf/OM12K90U.pdf

Corolla
https://www.toyota.com/t3Porta...35U/pdf/OM02535U.pdf

For the hatchback:
quote:

Oil grade: API SN/RC multigrade engine oil
Recommended viscosity: SAE
0W-16

SAE 0W-16 is the best choice
for good fuel economy and good
starting in cold weather.

If SAE 0W-16 is not available,
SAE 0W-20 oil may be used.
However, it must be replaced
with SAE 0W-16 at the next oil
change.


For the Corolla:
quote:

Oil grade: ILSAC GF-5 multigrade engine oil
Recommended viscosity:
SAE 0W-20
SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE
5W-20 oil may be used. However,
it must be replaced with SAE 0W20 at the next oil change.



Yeah, well sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
 
Posts: 3343 | Location: Texas | Registered: April 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Prefontaine
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quote:
Originally posted by ridewv:


"They" being not Toyota corporate, but in our case I guess Toyota NA or Toyota USA?

My feeling on this (and I may well be wrong) is if I do use the oil that's recommended in other countries, but not in the US, is Toyota couldn't deny ANY warranty claim on any component of the car not affected by oil viscosity. So that leaves only the motor itself. And for Toyota to have to prove that the oil recommended for this car in country A is what caused the same engine in a car in country U to fail from an oil related failure, would be their argument. They also suggest 10K oil changes, I do mine at 5,000. I'm comfortable with my choice.


Use the oil they deem (toyo usa) while under warranty. If that is 0w 16 then do it. But I don't like mfr oil as they all farm it out and put their brand on it. I use Amsoil in all my stuff and make sure it meets or exceed vehicle mfr spec.



lex talionis
 
Posts: 9865 | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ridewv
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I opened the two links for owners manuals but did not see what year each referred. The link for the Corolla Hatchback manual shows the 2.0 engine but the link for the Corolla Sedan manual shows the 1.8 engine.
For model year 2019 the Hatchback received a complete makeover including the all new 2.0 engine being used in both trims SE and XSE, while the 2019 Sedan continued unchanged with the old 1.8 engine. The Sedan received the complete makeover for model year 2020 and most models get the new 2.0 engine, however the old 1.8 is still used in a base model sedan. The 1.8 engine specs 0W-20 while the new 2.0 specs 0W-16, at least for the U.S. market.



quote:
Originally posted by Patrick-SP2022:
Looking at the published owners manual on the Toyota site, there are separate manuals for the Corolla and Corolla hatchback.


Corolla Hatchback
https://www.toyota.com/t3Porta...90U/pdf/OM12K90U.pdf

Corolla
https://www.toyota.com/t3Porta...35U/pdf/OM02535U.pdf



No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
 
Posts: 5050 | Location: Northern WV | Registered: January 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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