Several months back, I re-did the shelving in our pantry. Nothing fancy, just Rubbermaid double-track standards and supports. Obnoxiously, no studs available where I needed them, so I went for some Toggler brand anchors, which I had past success with. Not so much in the pantry. About half of them didn't seem to line up right when I went to actually bolt the standards down and just ended up popping off the metal toggle bits which are now sitting at the bottom of the pantry wall behind the drywall. There were enough that did hold for my satisfaction, but the OCD in me wants to eventually re-do all of them.
Current problem - I have a hall closet - same project - more anticipated weight. Thought I'd skip the Togglers this time, given my last experience, and went instead for Cobra Triple Grips.
What a freaking mistake that was. Pretty much every screw going in would start to pull the anchors out as I tightened them down with more than light pressure. Given that there are nine of these holding each standard, I'm sure the shelves could take moderate weight, but I don't want to be waiting to hear the crash or worse... get the call from Mrs.BurtonRW that she was getting something from the closet when a shelf decided to collapse on her.
So... I have 3/8" holes with these Cobra Triple Grip anchors in them. Looks like they'll be stupid easy to pull out, but what do I use instead? I need something that uses bigger than the 3/8" holes I've already drilled. Because of that, I'm also thinking I need something more like a toggle bolt. Not sure I'd even trust a molly bolt unless I could find an actual 1/2" size.
Recommend something. Preferably something I can pick up this evening at Lowe's since Mrs.BurtonRW is already thinking this has taken way too long and isn't happy with me having to re-do the standard mounting.
Thanks in advance.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A
March 15, 2021, 10:01 AM
pbramlett
I've had great success with the Togglers. I've found you have to start them by hand and not use your drill motor initially when getting them threaded.
I have also had really good luck with the metal Toggler anchors. Even used them on a baby gate that the kids and their friends would practically swing on without pulling them out.
I think those are a bit overkill for shelf standards. I would use much smaller anchors for that. I have used these types before also with good success:
I would suggest that you might want to look at Project Farm's review of drywall anchors on youtube. It was very helpful to me.
March 15, 2021, 11:30 AM
sigcrazy7
Those zip toggles are awesome. They look like a big zip tie that allows you to set the anchor toggle before inserting the screw. You pull the zip then snap it off then set the screw. They are fantastic.
Make sure you insert it so the toggle is horizontal to the load to get your max load rating.
Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
March 15, 2021, 12:06 PM
ensigmatic
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7: Those zip toggles are awesome. They look like a big zip tie that allows you to set the anchor toggle before inserting the screw. You pull the zip then snap it off then set the screw. They are fantastic.
They sure are! We have a shelf in the kitchen where I used one of those.
In fact I just used a pair on a towel ring in a bathroom. Whomever had installed it had used traditional toggles. We removed it for painting. Buh bye toggles. Screwed a pair of these in, instead. Worked like a champ.
My guess, BurtonRW, is you're drilling the pilot holes for your anchors too big. Using traditional drywall anchors I drill the holes just big enough to get just the very tip of the anchor to stay put, then I hammer 'em in. Quite forcefully.
The screw-in type anchors to which my URL points I screw in with a battery-powered screw driver or cordless drill motor.
The only screw-in anchor I've ever had fail was one where I drilled the hole too big. That was the one I replaced with one of those zip lag anchors to which sigcrazy7 referred.
IME, the manufacturers' hole size guidelines call for holes that are much too big to have anchors hold.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
March 15, 2021, 01:50 PM
BurtonRW
Thanks for the tips/hints/suggestions.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear on a couple of things. The toggler brand anchors that gave me such a hard time in the pantry were the zip style type. I have also loved them in the past. Just wasn’t sure if they had changed at some point given my pantry experience with the bolts popping the metal toggles off before threading into them.
As for hole size, I’m the guy that when using regular anchors usually uses a drill bit one step smaller than recommended and then hand-reams the hole until I can barely get the anchor set with a hammer. Often takes destroying a couple in the process from trying to squeeze them too tight. In the case of these Cobra triple action whatevers, I actually used the bit that Cobra provided because... well... lazy, I guess. Still, I’m not sure a tighter hole would have them holding all that much better if they aren’t properly expanding behind the drywall. I did have to hammer them in.
I think I’m going to give the toggler toggles a shot and be very careful to make sure the bolts grab the toggle threads. They should have no trouble supporting themselves in the now existing 3/8” holes long enough for me to clamp the standards down to them.
Worst case scenario, I’ll just rip off all the drywall and screw in some 2x4s where I want them before I have my drywall guy come to fix the damage.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A
March 15, 2021, 02:32 PM
PASig
quote:
Originally posted by BurtonRW:
Worst case scenario, I’ll just rip off all the drywall and screw in some 2x4s where I want them before I have my drywall guy come to fix the damage.
-Rob
Why not do a ledger board type install where you screw a piece of plywood or something to the studs over the drywall, then you screw your shelf brackets to that?
March 15, 2021, 02:44 PM
PHPaul
quote:
Originally posted by pbramlett: I've had great success with the Togglers. I've found you have to start them by hand and not use your drill motor initially when getting them threaded.
Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.
March 15, 2021, 04:26 PM
sigcrazy7
There does come a point where you cut a hole, put in a piece of 1x4 pine, patch it, then use wood screws.
Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
March 15, 2021, 04:32 PM
comet24
At this point, I would go old school with true toggle bolt style anchors.
Find a size where the bolt will fit through the hole in your shelving bracket. You may have to drill out the metal shelving bracket hole a little larger but that should be easy.
The link is to the style of the anchor I'm talking about but you may need a different size.
These take more time to install but should hold very well.
Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac
March 15, 2021, 06:13 PM
BurtonRW
Well, I went back to the tried and true toggler zip style anchors. I was very careful with them and only had a few fail to engage. Each standard has at least 6/7 rock solid attachments now. Drywall should pull off of the studs before those standards come off.
Damn. What a tedious job.
I bought the bulk pack so I have plenty to go and re-do the pantry with (eventually), assuming those holes aren’t already too big.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A
March 15, 2021, 07:33 PM
MikeGLI
I do a lot of this type of hanging for a living, sometimes the strap toggles do a swan dive before you can thread the bolt, just kinda comes with the territory. I'll also use EZ Zips depending on the application.
I've also installed a ledger in instances where studs aren't available or the site conditions/tolerances dictate.
NRA Life Member Steak: Rare. Coffee: Black. Bourbon: Neat.
March 15, 2021, 08:46 PM
Jimbo Jones
Those have worked well for me as well.
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7: Those zip toggles are awesome. They look like a big zip tie that allows you to set the anchor toggle before inserting the screw. You pull the zip then snap it off then set the screw. They are fantastic.
They sure are! We have a shelf in the kitchen where I used one of those.
In fact I just used a pair on a towel ring in a bathroom. Whomever had installed it had used traditional toggles. We removed it for painting. Buh bye toggles. Screwed a pair of these in, instead. Worked like a champ.
My guess, BurtonRW, is you're drilling the pilot holes for your anchors too big. Using traditional drywall anchors I drill the holes just big enough to get just the very tip of the anchor to stay put, then I hammer 'em in. Quite forcefully.
The screw-in type anchors to which my URL points I screw in with a battery-powered screw driver or cordless drill motor.
The only screw-in anchor I've ever had fail was one where I drilled the hole too big. That was the one I replaced with one of those zip lag anchors to which sigcrazy7 referred.
IME, the manufacturers' hole size guidelines call for holes that are much too big to have anchors hold.
--------------------------------------- It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves.
March 24, 2021, 03:48 PM
p08
Regular old hollow wall anchors are still the best. They come in different lengths for how thick the dry wall is.
I must agree. ALL of those screw into the sheetrock anchors suck. Turn it too far, and the sheetrock gives out. Just wait until you try to remove one, the anchors comes out with the screw, and you have a 3/8 hole in the wall.
Those HTB Toggler Bolts are perfect for permanent drywall applications.
Get them at HD or Lowes...
April 03, 2021, 08:30 AM
trapper189
All of them aren't bad until you try them on an exterior wall of a CBS home where the drywall is mounted to the block with 1/2 inch furring strips. It's really great when you think you have 3/4" and don't such that those screw in types hit the block and you wind up with a hole instead of an anchor. This actually works out because the next step is to cut out a section of drywall and tapcon a 1/2" piece of plywood to the block which serves to hold real screws for whatevee you were trying to hang in the first place as well as the piece of drywall you'll be using to patch the hole.
On the one hand, I hate hanging things from drywall. On the other hand, I've gained some good patching and texture matching skills.
The problem I have with toggles, and the anchor comparision video posted above bears this out, is only the screw really has any bearing with a vertical load on a wall. If you tighten them down too much, then the backer first crushes the gypsum then starts to cut the paper.
The overall issue isn't that the anchor are garbage, but that drywall just isn't a great material to hang much more than pictures and posters on.
April 05, 2021, 09:06 AM
snidera
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189: The overall issue isn't that the anchor are garbage, but that drywall just isn't a great material to hang much more than pictures and posters on.
I concur. If the 3M command strips won't hold it, I'm using a wood or lag screw into a stud - If the spacing is off, she deal with it or it's staying on the floor.
