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Equal Opportunity Mocker
Picture of slabsides45
posted
I'm about done with this phrase, and the fading flowers that throw it around. The thing that finally set me off was a news story (Fox, IIRC) about the teen in Utah that is getting hammered for wearing a chinese dress and standing with the praying hands pose. Apparently she can't decide if she is allowed to wear the dress unless consulting the culture it came from.

News flash guys, and I'm sorry (not) if it bothers you: Western attire has been appropriated by most of the world now, and my phone has yet to ring once to ask me if it's ok for them to wear it. Ditto for about 80% of the stuff that separates us from suburban Mogadishu.

I wish we could get past this era of being so overwrought with sensitivities, before I lose my mind.


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
 
Posts: 6389 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

Picture of PASig
posted Hide Post
It's getting beyond ridicouus with these SJW's

There is a pretty well-known Chef in the Chicago area by the name of Rick Bayless (who was my culinary school graduation speaker, BTW) who specializes in real Mexican cuisine. Not Tex-Mex, not what people *think* Mexican all cuisine is like tacos and burritos, no he's gone and traveled there and lived there and brought back the real deal.

So a couple years ago, NPR and others tried to accuse him of "cultural appropriation" with his cooking. Seriously? The guys's been doing this cuisine for 30 years now and is highly respected in his field! Please stop with being offended at literally everything you come across. Roll Eyes




When Chefs Become Famous Cooking Other Cultures' Food


He actually stood up to them and responded with this:

quote:

From time to time through my four decades of tirelessly exploring, cooking and promoting the complex and diverse cuisine of Mexico, a handful of people with Hispanic last names have attacked me for cooking Mexican food, saying I have no right to. I am, after all, unapologetically a white guy from Oklahoma City who was raised in a barbeque restaurant.

The attacks touch a whole host of different nerves on both sides.

Most of those who denounce my work come with the same couple of presuppositions. The first is that for select cultures, certain aspects of intangible cultural heritage are inherently the exclusive property of the culture that created them. Only people who’ve been raised in that culture (or descendants of people from that culture, no matter where they live in the world) can make a profession of those aspects of the intangible cultural heritage. Basically, what I’m saying is that there is a belief that only Mexicans (or their descendants) can make Mexican food.

Now, I say that this is only for certain cultures. Search as I might, I haven’t unearthed any examples of French, Italian or Japanese (three of the most respected cuisines in the world) alleging inappropriate appropriation toward any non-natives who’ve joined the ranks of those who call themselves French or Italian or Japanese chefs. They may (and often do) question those chefs’ depth of knowledge, the length of time they’ve emerged themselves in the cuisine and culture, their interpretation of traditions or their talent. But I’ve never heard them allege “highjacking” thievery.

Second, most of those who denounce my work have a very particular understanding of cuisine: Rather than an ever-evolving, ever-morphing approach to transforming raw ingredients into unique dishes that the culture recognizes as its own, these folks see cuisine as a finite number of recipes that can be captured, as if they were jewels, and sold in another market. For obvious reasons, that’s misguided. In Mexico, every region cooks differently, every town, every family. To truly understand a dish, you have to go to where they’re well known, visit the markets to understand the ingredients, then cook with a host of cooks to understand the essence of what ties all the individual examples together. (Basically, to work deeply in the culinary aspects of intangible cultural heritage, you need to have serious training in anthropology, which I do.) Now, whether you’re going to capture what you’ve learned in a cookbook or a restaurant menu, you’ll be translating it from the original expression into a new medium. That’s more of an art than a science in my opinion. But only if you have talent for that part (and a tremendous amount of vision and stamina)can you be successful. In four decades of working in this profession, I’ve never seen anyone “capture” and make millions on it.

Third, many of those who denounce my work focus on the simple fact that I’m white. All I’d have to do is claim that I had a Mexican great-grandmother, and I could be part of the club. Otherwise, all I seem to represent for these people—no matter how deep my knowledge, respect and love for the cuisine—is the oppressor, the usurper. Being told I can’t study, practice, share, celebrate the glories of Mexican cuisine simply because I’m white, simply because I don’t have a Mexican grandmother, is to be denied something that I identify with at the very core of my being. Isn’t that an example of racism, and aren’t we all trying to move past that in our modern society?

I will tell you the truth: I am not a person who looks at people through “race” eyes. I’d rather focus on the beauty that people all over the world are creating every day. Which means I’ve honestly never sat around wondering if I have gotten where I am because I’m white, wondering if I should feel angst-ridden guilt because I was born white. Honestly, what would that accomplish? Would it lead me to one day realize that my love for Mexico and it’s cuisine wasn’t true love, but mere appropriation. Would it lead me to repent, apologize to Mexico, and start cooking French food?

Instead, what keeps me up at night is wondering if Frontera’s Oaxacan black mole would satisfy my Oaxacan friends, if I’ve truly captured the soul of Yucatan on my latest series of Public Television shows, if any of our restaurant menus have strayed from Mexico’s true flavor balance, if we’ve packed our restaurant training manuals with enough cross-cultural information, if I’m equipping my staff adequately to leave the fold, open their own restaurants and improve what the world thinks of Mexican food.

So, please, I invite you to criticize me if you think I’m not talented at writing recipes, as a restaurant chef, or as a communicator on television. Criticize my work if you think it’s not well researched enough, or if you think all the years I’ve lived and traveled in Mexico isn’t enough to absorb the cuisine. But don’t criticize me for being white, for falling head over heels for Mexico and it’s incomparable cuisine, and for wanting to share it with the world.


 
Posts: 33773 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
There is no sin in cultural appropriation. Cultures do it all the time. It is what cultures do. They borrow, they blend, and they merge.

Vikings go to Ireland and bring, well, I don't know - lutefisk and horned helmets.

French kings come to England and bring the French language and stinky cheese.

The English copied French fashion through most of the enlightenment.

Marco Polo goes to Asia and brings back General Tso's chicken.

Later, the PRC comes to the US, and takes back Kentucky Fried Chicken and Buicks.

Complaining about this, or telling people that this is wrong is ridiculous. I have no patience for this as a criticism.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53121 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Crusty old
curmudgeon
Picture of Jimbo54
posted Hide Post
Here is what the OP was referencing.

http://www.foxnews.com/lifesty...priation-debate.html


________________________

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird
 
Posts: 9791 | Location: The right side of Washington State | Registered: September 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From the article linked here:

https://www.sfgate.com/news/ar...-attire-12877452.php

"My culture is NOT your . . .. prom dress," a man named Jeremy Lam tweeted days later, sharing the photos she posted.

As one of the commenter on SFGate pointed out, Jeremy is an anglicized form of Jeremiah which is Hebrew for "God will Uplift". So Jeremy, unless you're Jewish, your own "Cultural Appropriation" is showing.
 
Posts: 1474 | Location: Washington | Registered: August 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

Picture of PASig
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Here is what the OP was referencing.

http://www.foxnews.com/lifesty...priation-debate.html


Twitter is becoming a toilet for people with too much time on their hands to bully other people. FFS! Frown


 
Posts: 33773 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
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All of humankind alive today have "appropriated something", from all cultures, history, nature and so on.

It is a natural thing.

Piss on these morons.

The shear ludicrous nature of the thought of taking someone to task requires the dimwit making the claim/accusation, to likely do so in an "appropriated" language, wearing "appropriated" attire, and standing on "appropriated" ground.

Sick, and tired of it all.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 43867 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Ripley
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This reminds me of those who take issue with our country being called a melting pot. They would prefer calling it a salad.

I'm not going to think too hard on this but aren't charges of cultural appropriation exclusively made against whites/Westerners? After all, we -- I'll say we -- have what we have because we've taken it from everyone else. And now we're taking their very identity? An easy mentality to understand given that the whites/West have given the world nothing in return. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 8329 | Location: Flown-over country | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
I seriously see nothing wrong with it. She wasn't mocking the culture. She took on something identified with a culture and wore it. It shows admiration. She didn't mangle it.

There was a white young woman at work who would wear a chinese jacket and put chopsticks in her hair. I thought it was cute.

I'm actually thinking the Chinese attire was even a less expensive way to get a prom dress but still look good. I actually like the girl for this part.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 19646 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Equal Opportunity Mocker
Picture of slabsides45
posted Hide Post
Know what really frosts my nethers? When these people appropriate MY language. If you MUST communicate your distaste for people appropriating some facet of your existence, use your own language, thank you. You sippin' my soupe, Guadeloupe?


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
 
Posts: 6389 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Delusions of Adequacy
Picture of zoom6zoom
posted Hide Post
Idiots can't tell appreciation from appropriation.




I have my own style of humor. I call it Snarkasm.
 
Posts: 17944 | Location: Virginia | Registered: June 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unapologetic Old
School Curmudgeon
Picture of Lord Vaalic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by zoom6zoom:
Idiots can't tell appreciation from appropriation.


In their ignorance they don't care to learn the difference




Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day
 
Posts: 10722 | Location: TN | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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I welcome anyone to jump into my culture. My hillbilly heritage is not for the faint of heart.
The food is excellent, though!


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 16070 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of SevenPlusOne
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I wish these assholes would appropriate a fucking clue.



"Ninja kick the damn rabbit"
 
Posts: 4617 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: October 11, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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People need to get over themselves and also stop trying to prove how socially 'woke' they are. My ancestors were Irish and German but you don’t see me getting upset every St. Patrick's Day when they entire Us population pretends to be Irish nor do you see me making a scene during Oktoberfest celebrations when I see someone walking around like they just stepped off the set of The Sound Of Music.


Laughing in the face of danger is all well and good until danger laughs back.
 
Posts: 496 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: July 08, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of SPWAMike0317
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Good News
Atomic weapons were invented in the US, no other nation can culturally appropriate them. International problems solved.

Bad News
Gunpowder wasn't invented here. It's OK, send it to me and I will dispose of it in a culturally sensitive manner.

It is unfortunate the perpetrators of this nonsense can't appropriate some common sense.



Let me help you out. Which way did you come in?
 
Posts: 717 | Location: North of Pittsburgh, PA | Registered: January 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Where is all the Cultural Appropriation outrage on St Patrick's day?
 
Posts: 2044 | Registered: September 19, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Spectemur Agendo
Picture of brecaidra
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Here is what the OP was referencing.

http://www.foxnews.com/lifesty...priation-debate.html


FWIW, the majority of people in my Korean group have no problem with her wearing the dress, but most of them dislike the pose the girls are doing in the group picture.

I'm mostly curious about how the girl expressed concern over the modesty of necklines but seems perfectly comfortable with showing so much of her legs. I'm not judging; I just find it interesting.




SIGforum's triple minority


"It can't rain all the time." - Eric Draven
 
Posts: 16993 | Location: IA | Registered: May 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Flow first,
power later.
posted Hide Post
So why don’t these useful idiots go after college professors?

You can’t teach French -your last name is Chavez!

You can’t teach history - you’re only 30!

You can’t teach Math - you’re not Arabic!

Stupid narrow applications of misguided illogical thought.
 
Posts: 672 | Location: Tampa | Registered: September 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Corgis Rock
Picture of Icabod
posted Hide Post
The SWJ Jeremy Lam has a post about eating tacos with chopsticks. He also has a photo of him in Western sports clothing.
One question I had was what he worn to his prom.i could not have been a Tux of course. That dates from 1888 and New York's Tuxedo Club.
Clearly little Jeremy needs to apologize for his cultural appropriation.
Last, it's a sure bet that the young lady's dress was made in China to be exported to the United States and sold to an American woman. Clearly, little Jeremy needs to apologize to the Chinese that made the dress, had jobs because of it, and had absolutely no problem with her wearing it.



“ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull.
 
Posts: 6060 | Location: Outside Seattle | Registered: November 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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