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Mensch
Picture of kz1000
posted Hide Post
Sounds like a FCA product operating as it should.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yidn, shreibt un fershreibt"

"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
-Bomber Harris
 
Posts: 15166 | Location: Ivorydale | Registered: January 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scooter123:

Point is that today's "techs" don't do any diagnosis unless a "code is throw" and that IMO is a flat out Lazy approach.


Ever hear the term, idiot lights?




 
Posts: 7952 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The problem is the engines are so advanced that a lot of the old school methods would take 3x the amount of time. For example, in the old school days you had 1 ignition coil for the entire motor, now you have 4-8 of them, and a lot more time to remove each one and diagnose each one. The engine computers also are so advanced that they truly can detect a lot of issues on their own, versus before.
 
Posts: 18016 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
quote:
and what feels like a slight misfire under load at highway speeds (MIL not on... yet).

If it hasn't gone on long enough or bad enough, it may not set any misfire codes. And - if this is anything like Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep (pre-Fiat) that I have worked on in the past - there is no provision to show any real-time misfire or history of misfires. So on this issue, yeah, you're pretty much SOL until it gets worse.

BTW, on the post-2014 Cherokee, did you know the shape of its tailgate makes your reflection in it upside down?
 
Posts: 22583 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I don’t know if mechanics can’t mechanic, but some of them don’t seem to want to anymore. At least not at the dealership.

Just before we moved my 2008 Explorer had the check engine light come on. Almost all of my tools were already on a truck heading to FL and not wanting to make a 500 or so mile journey without investigating it, I bit the bullet and took it to the dealer.

They fixed the problem but when they sent the email confirming the repair they added a bunch of recommendations like “add brake fluid” and “flush and change transmission fluid”. The thing is I’d just done both. I went in and had a talk with the service manager telling him I knew the mechanic hadn’t checked any of that. The best part is that the coolant reservoir had a leak and was bone dry. There was nothing on the report about that so I knew the mechanic hadn’t actually done an inspection.

It turns out he didn’t. He didn’t check anything. The computer told him it the things on the list should be done based on mileage. Nowhere on the email did it mention that the services, another $1500 worth by the way, were based on mileage.


That brings up another good point, flush services not required by the automaker, a.k.a wallet flush. Say what you will but when a domestic automaker issues a TSB specifically dealing with unnecessary services sold by third party vendors, the additional expense to vehicle owners and in addition stating that if a component or assembly failure can be traced back to one of these services there will be no warranty coverage or assistance (known as customer satisfaction) offered. And that if these services were necessary this manufacturer would market their own approved chemicals and equipment necessary to use it. Only time I ever saw GM authorize the use of a non GM branded chemical was in the late 90's when Dexcool was turning to brown sludge in radiators. In fact later we would order this Prestone dry powder flush from Service Parts Operations, still in the cardboard Prestone container but with a GM part number label affixed to it.

These services are usually high profit at least for the service writers and technicians. Either one or both are "spiffed" (bonus) for selling and or using the product. Writers with no conscience are notorious for pushing these on people. My favorites were an automatic transmission flush sold on a manual transmission car and a power steering flush sold on a car with electric steering assist.


Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 5918 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
quote:
What a waste of money and time. Also frustrating that when HAL 9000 tells me certain systems aren't working properly, it doesn't generate an OBD code so problems, if intermittent, don't become bigger problems at less convenient times.

At some point, ASE certification is going to require a computer engineering background because apparently, mechanics can't mechanic these days unless the computer tells them what to do.

I guarantee I'll be back within the next month or two once a code is thrown.



Spend some time on the Jeep forums, you'll probably find others that have been through this with Jeep and found a couple of resolutions, not all problems are tied into the central brain of the car, many times an electronic part can be failing and the failure is just enough to cause a drive-ability issue but not signal a code as the part isn't out of spec but it's bad enough that the vehicle is having a slight issue.

My F150 does that, it has a light stutter at low speeds, feels like a miss occasionally, not enough to make it run bad but not perfectly smooth, no codes, if you scan it you'd need to do a scan while driving as it doesn't do it parked.

Research shows a common issue on that engine relating back to a failing coil. Of course nothing has failed so you have no clue which one has failed...



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13885 | Location: FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
X2 on the Jeep forums. My story FWIW.

2012 Wrangler, 130 series radio. AM FM CD/MP3 Satellite capable with steering wheel controls. AM-FM quit, everything else was fine. Dealer quoted $400 range for an exchange radio plus labor of $200, part of that was to obtain the security code for radio unlock. This is an important point also. Also these radios are known to have problems, bad solder joints on the IC board, Siemens radio.

I asked two Jeep dealers about upgrading to a touchscreen and NAV unit, both dealers said it would not work, vehicle is wired for this unit only, BCM will only accept the radio it was built with, no reflashes available. And the best part, a limited number of repair centers, I was told by a FCA warranty shop that particular radio can only be serviced by that center.

On the forums I found out the dealer was giving out incorrect information. You could upgrade the radio. The biggest thing was that you need to get is the security code, only available through FCA dealers. You need the VIN of the vehicle it came out of and the serial number of the radio, without the security code it is a brick. There is one place that will recover the lock code without a VIN, they can be found on the Internet.

Once I got the radio the installation was quick and easy, what took the longest time was switching the Sirius service over, we argued online about a 15 dollar service charge, they finally waived it and to find the one dash screw that I dropped between the console and seat. All functions including steering wheel controls work. To have the UConnect function work (my Jeep did not have this option) I need an additional kit, I'll watch for one on the forum also.

Total cost 325 dollars.


Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 5918 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of .38supersig
posted Hide Post
UConnect is pretty straightforward to install.

Retrofitting it to an older truck isn't overly difficult if you can make you own wiring harness.



My other Sig is a Steyr...
 
Posts: 4706 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BurtonRW:
quote:
Originally posted by rizzle:
The PM maintenance recommended in the original post for that model vehicle would most likely fix it.


I agree. I’m certain that a coil will fail in the next couple of months. The problem is that unless a code is thrown OR they can diagnose a malfunction without a code, they’ll call replacement a PM issue and it won’t be covered under warranty.

-Rob


Does the vehicle have over 100,000 miles? Might check to see if those parts are covered under the emission related warranty if it's under 100K.
BTW, (I know, unsolicited advice) get rid of that Jeep. They're crap and there are a lot better options in that price range.
 
Posts: 5315 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Only the strong survive
Picture of 41
posted Hide Post
quote:
what feels like a slight misfire under load at highway speeds (MIL not on... yet).


So what brand of plugs are you using and how many miles before changing?

I have found that AC/Delco plugs...R43, last about 25K miles before the insulator wears out and the plug will arch over down inside instead of at the tip of the plug. It will still run but on the high end during hard acceleration, you will feel a slight miss.

Also your gas mileage will drop off.

In 1967, I built a capacitor discharge ignition using a Popular Science article for my 66 Corvette. It would idle very smooth and improved the gas mileage. Then at around 50K miles, it would miss on the high end when winding it out.

So I pulled one of the plugs and used a magneto to test the plug and it was arching down inside the plug and not at the tip.




41
 
Posts: 10361 | Location: Herndon, VA | Registered: June 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Striker in waiting
Picture of BurtonRW
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by BurtonRW:
quote:
Originally posted by rizzle:
The PM maintenance recommended in the original post for that model vehicle would most likely fix it.


I agree. I’m certain that a coil will fail in the next couple of months. The problem is that unless a code is thrown OR they can diagnose a malfunction without a code, they’ll call replacement a PM issue and it won’t be covered under warranty.

-Rob


Does the vehicle have over 100,000 miles? Might check to see if those parts are covered under the emission related warranty if it's under 100K.


172K. And the coils are covered under my unlimited miles/lifetime MaxCare warranty. The plugs are not. (To answer 41’s question, I had the plugs changed at the recommended 100K miles with whatever the top shelf NGK iridium plugs were at the time. Absent a confirmed plug issue, I don’t plan on changing them until 200K.)

quote:
BTW, (I know, unsolicited advice) get rid of that Jeep. They're crap and there are a lot better options in that price range.


The unsolicited advice is welcome, but there’s no way I’m getting rid of it until FCA pulls the trigger on the buy-out provision of the warranty. It’s already paid for itself and then some. Joke is on them. Maybe it’s why they don’t offer the unlimited miles/lifetime warranty anymore.

Curious - what options did you have in mind with that kind of off-road and payload capability? My next vehicle will likely be a Tacoma, but I wasn’t looking for a pickup when I bought the Cherokee.

-Rob




I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888

A=A
 
Posts: 15152 | Location: Maryland, AA Co. | Registered: March 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig:
UConnect is pretty straightforward to install.

Retrofitting it to an older truck isn't overly difficult if you can make you own wiring harness.


I've fabbed up harnesses, no big deal. I'll start component shopping after I get my plastic card bill down, had to buy the hydraulic cam tensioner kit for my Harley a week ago as the dealership I work at closed, needed to get it while I still got my discount even though it won't get installed until next year.


Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 5918 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Only the strong survive
Picture of 41
posted Hide Post
IIRC, Iridium plugs are suppose to be good for 100K miles.

I have never used Iridium plugs due to the expense and that I index my plugs.




41
 
Posts: 10361 | Location: Herndon, VA | Registered: June 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 41:
IIRC, Iridium plugs are suppose to be good for 100K miles.

I have never used Iridium plugs due to the expense and that I index my plugs.


In reality, from what I've seen on Fords (5.4l and 3.5 ecoboost) at about 65k miles, gas mileage drops off 10-20% and they start running much less crisp and performance degrades a bit.
 
Posts: 18016 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by 41:
IIRC, Iridium plugs are suppose to be good for 100K miles.

I have never used Iridium plugs due to the expense and that I index my plugs.


In reality, from what I've seen on Fords (5.4l and 3.5 ecoboost) at about 65k miles, gas mileage drops off 10-20% and they start running much less crisp and performance degrades a bit.


That’s because it’s a Ford, and this coming from a former a ford truck man. I changed the plugs in my Tundra at the recommended 120,000 miles. Truck was still running perfectly at the time. Could tell no difference at all after plug change.


————————————————
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, manage.
 
Posts: 1242 | Location: North And East Of The Big Chicken | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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