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A part of the problem was created with “Zero Tolerance” rules. IF this happens (fill in the blank) then THIS is required. While in theory it sounds good, it makes the discipline for the special student who forgot his meds the same as the class bully. No discretion on the part of the teacher or administrator is allowed. The RULES are the RULES, written in stone, NO interpretation allowed.

A portion of the parents today grew up with the paddle and capital punishment. They said to themselves “I’m never going to do this to MY kid, mine will be an angel. He/she will be the perfect kid”. The pendulum has swung to the other extreme. Kids can do no wrong. The teachers are bad - according to the media. Listening to the media (according to them) ALL teachers/administrators are bad. The child is the victim. In a population of 330 million there will always be a small percentage of victims and bad teachers. You can’t get away from it. The media just puts them specifically in your face every night. The vast majority are good and even great teachers.

Solutions?

Do away with zero tolerance, reestablish discretion in disciplinary action for teachers and administrators.

This would certainly help, but the indoctrination by the media goes deep.

Use more video recording of classes. As I understand it, video recording of student behavior on school busses has all but solved misbehavior issues. Do the same thing in the classroom. Then when there is an issue remove the student and keep him/her out of the class until the parents/administrator/student meet and view the video. When everyone sees the behavior then a solution can be found. No more “he said, she said” arguments.
“Oh but the children have rights!” Actually the teachers/adults in the schools act as parental authority while the student is in attendance. In this situation the school has legal authority (and responsibility) to maintain order.
When a teacher spends all his/her time disciplining a single student, all the others in class are missing their time to learn. Those parents are the ones that should be making a ruckus.

Some years ago (13), while in a doctoral program I learned that each student cost the district an average of $7,000/year. If 24 students in a class are not learning because of one, there is a lot of money and learning opportunity going to waste.

In a nutshell - if the parents would hear about, and make noise about, the “bad apple” in your child’s class. And they ALL made that noise, something might improve.
 
Posts: 1748 | Location: south central Pennsylvania | Registered: November 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Or ,instead of admonishing the remiss parent or the innocent ( in most cases) child. Someone in today's society could offer the child the assistance needed in hopes that the child's problematic behavior can be accessed and remedied.
Giving future educators a fighting chance at providing the community with one more productive citizen.





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 49905 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bendable:
Someone in today's society could offer the child the assistance needed in hopes that the child's problematic behavior can be accessed and remedied.


That happens but it's often a Catch-22. A lot of these children with issues just mirror their homelife. Also that behavioral assistance usually isn't free AND requires parental consent. Lose-Lose-Lose situation for the child.
 
Posts: 391 | Registered: December 07, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Ronin101:
I don't blame the school one bit. The administrator knew what a shit show it could become and he still has his job today. The police officer is now unemployed.

The problem is that no one in society to allowed to correct behavior. Not parents, teachers, principals, police!!!! no one!! I am actually surprised that society hasn't collapsed even more.

If this had happened when I was a kid. the teacher and principal would have slapped me silly. If that didn't have the desired effect your father would have been called and he would have apologized and then whipped your ass again!.

Instead the snowflake is told that the police officer did a bad thing and was fired!!!


I agree with this; thanks to the LACK of parental skills and their refusal to accept their child negative behavior, schools have become nothing more than glorified day care facilities. Children don't have to be beaten into submission but they should be aware of responsible behavior towards all!


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Posts: 456 | Location: Idaho, west of Beaver Dicks Ferry | Registered: August 22, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The flip side could be worse. A school system that reports nothing. Sexual assault that happens on campus? No problem. Multiple sexual assaults that occur on multiple campus'? Meh, a matter of semantics.

It's so bad that the high school mascot is the Mustangs. The widely known nickname is the "Mustang Ranch" for the rampant debauchery that goes on. Teachers and students. Students and students. Students and unwilling students.

Some think that the most corruption in a county goes on at the courthouse. By far and away, it is the school system.




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Posts: 33961 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So ? All fingers pointing to two ,three or four of the problems. How long are you willing to stand there/ sit there pointing ? Do all the finger pointers that are identifying the cause just wait ? Maybe their grand kids will take over for them ? Problem identification Is 33% of the process now what ?





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 49905 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bendable:
So ? All fingers pointing to two ,three or four of the problems. How long are you willing to stand there/ sit there pointing ? Do all the finger pointers that are identifying the cause just wait ? Maybe their grand kids will take over for them ? Problem identification Is 33% of the process now what ?


Everybody is complaining how parents today suck so .......make it a requirement for people to go through an extensive personal evaluation and attend (and pass) a multi-year curriculum on parenting before being licensed to reproduce. Shit you gotta have a licence to catch a fish but any swingin' dick can poke a muffin top and squank out a half dozen SNAPlets who will likely grow up and repeat the cycle.
 
Posts: 391 | Registered: December 07, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So now either the city, the counties , the states or the feds are hiring, training and paying 10,000 people to screen applicants.

Then they have to hire another 1000 people to manage and wrangle the first 10,000,

then 3,100 legal staff will be needed for all of the law suits
when people break the law, or sue to challenge the decisions. And the bribes ! Can you even begin to imagine all the bribery ?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 49905 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bendable:
So now either the city, the counties , the states or the feds are hiring, training and paying 10,000 people to screen applicants. Then they have to hire another 1000 people to manage and wrangle the first 10,000, then 3,100 legal staff will be needed for all of the law suits
when people break the law, or sue to challenge the decessions. And the bribes ! Can you even begin to imagine all the bribery ?


It was just an Orwellian spitball.
 
Posts: 391 | Registered: December 07, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Kraquin:

It was just an Orwellian spitball.
Parabellum is waiting for your response in the political MEME thread. He will lock the thread if you do not respond. Please take care of this.

I was going to send you an email but there is no email address in your profile.



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Posts: 23106 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It starts early.


Absolutely. I had to investigate a 10 year old who strangled a 9 year old on the playground a few months back.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
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Posts: 21452 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Strangled to the point of death? A ten year old strangled a nine year old? Where the fuck where the playground monitors??
ETA: I apologize, I assumed this was on school grounds, based on the thread, but in rereading, it could be any playground.


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Posts: 4027 | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by irreverent:
Strangled to the point of death? A ten year old strangled a nine year old? Where the fuck where the playground monitors??
ETA: I apologize, I assumed this was on school grounds, based on the thread, but in rereading, it could be any playground.


It was on a school playground, the 10 year old is huge for his age... picked the other kid, feet off the ground, by the neck with one hand while they were both lined up to come in after recess.

The teachers were there and stopped it with no serious injury, but it could have been different if the big kid had squeezed a little more.

I’m a school resource officer now in a small but growing town in northern Colorado. I’ve had sex assaults, students attacking staff, students attacking each other, drug dealers, human trafficking in juveniles for sexual purposes... I’m amazed anyone sends their kids to school at all.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Posts: 21452 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Read John Taylor Gatto's book The Underground History of American Education for a NYC School Teacher's (and former Madison Avenue Ad Man) take on why public schools are dysfunctional.

He explains that in the major cities sometime in the 1960's the idea that administrative discipline in public schools has to follow a "due process" model took hold, and forever changed things. It took a long while for this to spread to the suburbs and smaller towns, but we are seeing the effects everywhere now.

Administrative discipline is not criminal prosecution, period. But now that we allow it to be treated as such, it is easier to call the police and turn over responsibility to the criminal justice system.
 
Posts: 1868 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tanksoldier:
quote:
Originally posted by irreverent:
Strangled to the point of death? A ten year old strangled a nine year old? Where the fuck where the playground monitors??
ETA: I apologize, I assumed this was on school grounds, based on the thread, but in rereading, it could be any playground.


It was on a school playground, the 10 year old is huge for his age... picked the other kid, feet off the ground, by the neck with one hand while they were both lined up to come in after recess.

The teachers were there and stopped it with no serious injury, but it could have been different if the big kid had squeezed a little more.

I’m a school resource officer now in a small but growing town in northern Colorado. I’ve had sex assaults, students attacking staff, students attacking each other, drug dealers, human trafficking in juveniles for sexual purposes... I’m amazed anyone sends their kids to school at all.


Well, I’m sure the hell second guessing myself. After watching the stuff that’s gone down at my son’s grade school the last 2 years, and reading all of shit in the media, as well as this, I have to wonder whether it really is worth it to “socialize” him.


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Posts: 4027 | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by irreverent:
Well, I’m sure the hell second guessing myself. After watching the stuff that’s gone down at my son’s grade school the last 2 years, and reading all of shit in the media, as well as this, I have to wonder whether it really is worth it to “socialize” him.


If I had kids they would be homeschooled in some manner. The district's charter academy, where all the high-performing/ wealthy kids go, you would think is safe, but has the worst drug problem in the district... black tar heroin is rampant, because those are also the kids with the most disposable income.

...and they don't get an SRO assigned.



"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
 
Posts: 21452 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: January 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by irreverent:
I have to wonder whether it really is worth it to “socialize” him.


There are definite pros and cons to either side. But I will say that the potential lack of socialization with homeschooling is not to be dismissed.

The socially-stunted "creepy homeschooled kid" is a very real phenomenon in my experience. In fact, I don't have stats in front of me, but a decent chunk of our juvenile sexual offenders are homeschooled kids.

(Luckily, many homeschool parents recognize the potential for this socialization issue, and take steps to address it, like with collaborative homeschooling co-ops and community activity enrollment.)
 
Posts: 24658 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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