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Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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While working as an IBM customer engineer I had occasion to work on a lot of "state of the art" mainframe computer equipment. I second the idea that designers of such stuff should have to work in the customer's office for at least a year before allowed to design anything!

One classic (in my mind) example. A bank of disk drives (8 as I recall) in 4 stacks of 2 each. Which, of course necessitated having to work on the lower ones by laying on the floor about half of the time.

Drive motor for those devices weighed in at about 50 pounds. Said drive motor had to be installed from the BOTTOM! Bad enough for the upper drive, but pure hell on the lower one.

The new motor had to be laid sideways on the floor, slid under the drive, then tilted upright to fit into the cavity where it went. Then lifted into place and the mounting bolts installed from above. 2 man job. Should have been installed from above, there was plenty of room! Just one example of all that "wonderful" design work done by "engineers" who had never actually worked on anything other than a drawing board.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 23502 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
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I thought of this thread on reading this this morning:

Surgical students losing dexterity to stitch patients

quote:
Roger Kneebone, professor of surgical education at Imperial College, London, says young people have so little experience of craft skills that they struggle with anything practical.

“It is important and an increasingly urgent issue,” says Prof Kneebone, who warns medical students might have high academic grades but cannot cut or sew.

“It is a concern of mine and my scientific colleagues that whereas in the past you could make the assumption that students would leave school able to do certain practical things – cutting things out, making things – that is no longer the case,” says Prof Kneebone.

Link

Surgeons need to be artisans as much as scientists. I used to think--naively--that men would be better than women at this because of growing up making stuff. I was wrong.


_________________________
“Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things.”--Adam Smith, born June 16, 1723
 
Posts: 14217 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diversified Hobbyist
Picture of Steve 22X
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quote:
Originally posted by YellowJacket:
And people that fix or build things ought to try designing for awhile. Work within compressed budgets, compressed time constraints, bosses/clients who change their minds constantly, and overbearing and ever-changing government regulations. Get a design finished the right way and then have finance tell you to cut the cost by 1/3...

You are not wrong but there are two sides to every story.


This and the arbitrary all department lay-offs when you have at least a year of contractual work for ALL of your Engineers.
Can't encumber the bean counters with the responsibility of actually thinking where to make the cuts - they just cut across the board.

But the OP may be confusing Stylists/Designers with Engineers.
Engineers are rarely the ones who dictate how the design is supposed to look but may get stuck HAVING to cram parts into an area that they aren't going to be readily accessible..

Having worked on motorcycles at various dealerships for 13 years, I completed my career as a degreed Engineer (now retired).
One learns to tell where the fuck-up actually came from.

In the OPs case, I would bet money that someone was required to make the part fit into the design so the style would be retained.
They also likely had to make it work while pinching pennies to do so.
Most likely initaited by the styling/design department, not engineering.


-----------------------------------
Regards, Steve
The anticipation is often greater than the actual reward
 
Posts: 2425 | Location: Wylie, Texas | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Three Generations
of Service
Picture of PHPaul
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve 22X:

In the OPs case, I would bet money that someone was required to make the part fit into the design so the style would be retained.
They also likely had to make it work while pinching pennies to do so.
Most likely initaited by the styling/design department, not engineering.


Absolutely. You'll notice that I included Designers in the title of my rant.




Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.
 
Posts: 10999 | Location: Downeast Maine | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diversified Hobbyist
Picture of Steve 22X
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quote:
Originally posted by PHPaul:
Absolutely. You'll notice that I included Designers in the title of my rant.


I reread your OP and noted that it was a Yamaha.
I have to admit from first hand experience, the pendulum swings both ways with that brand.
Designs that make it a royal PITA to perform maintenance work (ex. some early V-Twins and VMax).
Engineering that could only make sense to the person who developed it (ex. original FZR 750 clutch release mechanism).


-----------------------------------
Regards, Steve
The anticipation is often greater than the actual reward
 
Posts: 2425 | Location: Wylie, Texas | Registered: November 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of P226_operator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by k5blazer:
In my interview as a student intern with a defense contractor, I was asked if I knew how to solder. I said yes and soldered Heathkit projects and larger stuff on the farm. I was then asked if I ever played with fireworks. I replied that I built my own firecrackers and experimented with various propellants. I was then asked when I could start. I was a bit surprised and the interviewer told me that knowing how to solder and blow shit up means I would fit in. Spent 8 years with those guys. The boss told me he turned down engineers from hot shot schools cause they did not have hands on experience. Had to get your hands dirty first.


I've been an electrical engineer for 20+ years now. While back in school, I got an internship at a particle beam research lab. I was teamed up with an electronics technician, and he taught me the ropes: soldering, circuit board design, building cables, using test equipment, data acquisition systems, 3-phase power...and so on. I learned more about being an EE working as an intern versus learning theory in school. Now I'm in the defense industry, so now I always think of the guys and gals on the production floor who integrate our designs, and figure out what I can do to make their job a little easier. I take my drawing down to them, show them, then ask "What do you think?" When we're in the prototyping phase, I have the drawings on-hand while integrating, making those redline changes, and still ask the question "What do you think?" These guys and gals have been in the defense industry for years, and just about seen it all. I rely on there experience, and always ask for their input. It really helps in building trust and respect. They go out of their way for me when I need a favor done. That internship was the best education I've had in my professional career.

And on a different note...Yes the stuff we work on for our military is expensive, but I can tell you this...I work for 1) The warfighter 2) the taxpayer. You get the best out of me everyday at work, because I know who I'm really working for.


"Make like a Civil Engineer; build a bridge, and get over it!"
 
Posts: 331 | Location: Madison, AL | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I couldn't agree more with the OP.
I work in a fiberglass plant and have always said that the engineers and buyers should be made to work on the floor for 6 months minimum in order to help pull their heads out of their asses. Any more it is becoming evident that some upper management should do the same.
We have been bought out four times in the last four years by bigger and bigger global entities.
Micro management seems to be getting more and more"necessary" in the "great global scheme of things", and the problems cascade into what amounts to a hostile work environment.
 
Posts: 215 | Registered: March 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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