Retired from the PD in March after 25 years full time, and 4 years part time (usually filling in for vacations, about 400 hours a year). Yes I know I'm allowed under HB 218 to carry concealed. So me and a buddy (also recently retired) decided to take the class. It was pretty scary!! The instructor was an officer with a local dept and did a pretty good job with the classroom stuff. Class was from 8AM-Lunch, a bit more classroom, then a couple of hours on the range. I'd say about 1/2 of the people had never even touched a gun before. Several still had the price tags hanging off them. Very few had any idea how to lock the slides back, do a mag change, or clear malfunctions. As for taking them apart to clean forget it. The range itself was pretty scary, from just a few feet, they were all over the paper. Gun handling wasn't too bad, nobody pointed a gun at anyone and there were no AD'S. Without becoming political, or bringing the 2ND Amendment into it, I'm just thinking it may be a good idea to require an 8 hour gun safety, gun handling, weapon disassembly, cleaning requirement class prior to the CCW class?? BTW, I'm not blaming the instructor in the least, he did a good job. I'm just wondering if a little more instruction may be in order. And before I'm accused of not supporting someones right to defend themselves, or being accused of being a leftest, I'm a little to the right of Ronald Reagan!!!!
|Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best|
Did the classroom portion not include instruction on proper gun handling and manipulation? It sounds like he got the basic safety rules covered, so good there, but you'd think they'd want to go over all the handling and operational aspects ahead of time so that everyone knew how their gun operated before hitting the range.
I live in a state that doesn't require training for ccw, so I've never taken one of those classes, but I know all the LE classes I've been in have done a good job of covering all that (and more) before the students ever get handed live ammo.
|I Wanna Missile|
Training being a good idea, and state-mandated training being a good idea are two different things.
People do stupid things with their rights all the time.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight."
GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
Tennessee now has online only concealed classes. Pay your fee, listen to the lessons take the test
Background check and finger printing. No shots fired. Carrying in about a month...
|Go ahead punk, make my day|
People should be carrying the instant their brain makes the decision.
More training? Sure.
State mandated training as an additional bar to exercising a right? Absolutely not.
"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
I had a similar experience after I retired (26+ years). In AZ there was no requirement for a CCW for LE retirees for the 1st 5 years of retirement. CCW classes are now no longer mandatory and the state instruction requirements have been watered down since the inception. I think a lot of new owners think a CCW class will give them safety training, but it doesn't at least in AZ.
In the one class I attended before the enactment of 'constitutional carry', there was a guy who tried to qualify with a black powder pistol/cross draw in his mid length duster. There was a couple next to me with tricked out matching GLOCK pistols who continually pointed their muzzles in my direction. I warned them and the instructor to do something about it. I finally moved to the opposite end of the line. And neither of them could hit the center of mass at 10 yards.
Then there was a legally blind lawyer in Tucson who wanted to be qualified...
I helped teach the citizen's police academy at my old dept. The night of the firearms class (No live firing) just a little about firearms, I brought in about 1/2 a dozen pistols to show the class. DA/SA semi autos, DA/SA revolvers, SA semi autos, you get the idea. I explained how they functioned, how they were loaded, ect. If this was done there, I have a difficult time understanding how this wouldn't be beneficial for a CCW class. This isn't an open carry constitutional situation, it's a permit that could require a bit more training. This wanna be gang banger next to me didn't think to bring a pair of pants with a belt, much less a holster. No eyes/ears, and no ammo!! I'm guessing if he wasn't sure, he could have asked what he should bring when he signed up??? Oh, and when the different groups were taking their turns shooting, he was standing behind them yakking on his cell phone. It's these kind of circumstances that give anti gun people lots of "ammunition," so to speak.
No, not mandated,
But if you check in your area,
I think that you will find
Very few qualified instructors
Almost any courses, other than c w.p. classes
You would think
That someone in all of Maricopa county would offer a 6 day school
Pre purchase shooting fundamentals.
Safety , situational awareness and
Care,cleaning and storage.
Legal aspects of carrying.
Post shooting information.
Maybe there is an opportunity for you and your retired buddy.
Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.
Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
not a bad idea!!! I think the CCW classes here have been watered down in the last few years. When they first started I believe it was a two day class, one day in the classroom, and one day on the range. I could be wrong. I remember a friend told me they actually had an attorney teach part of the class regarding legalities. I'm not blaming the instructor, he just had too much material to cover in one day.
I was at the range/gun shop I frequent today. I was discussing all the new gun purchasers and one of the counter people told me that starting in March with all the novice shooters they started offering a free class/range time to familiarize new shooter with the newly purchased gun.
He advise about 50 % accepted the offer.
|Savor the limelight|
Definitely should be a mandatory part of the public school curriculum.
I don’t support government-forced firearm training and I live in a state that doesn’t require it to get your WCL. Of course first time shooters are going to be nervous and not hit as accurately as you or me.
Tennessee actually has two different permits. The above mentioned concealed carry permit and the enhanced concealed carry permit. The enhanced still requires 8hrs of instruction and a basic proficiency test. In addition, the enhanced permit allows the carrier to open carry and have reciprocity with other states. The other CCW has no reciprocity with any other states. It’s actually pretty scary the basic level of training required for a permit.
"You can't fix stupid" - Ron White
When I got my CCW about 10 years ago it was an 8 hour class, mostly classroom. The range was "here's 5 bullets hit anywhere on the full-size silhouette at 10 ft and you're good." We had one person in the class fail that and he was given another 5 rounds and told to try again.
I was early in my early 20s and the classroom portion put a lot of things in good perspective for me so I think it was a good class for a new gun owner, but pointless range session as I could nearly reach out and touch the huge target.
Probably 5-6 years ago they passed laws that don't require us to have CCWs to carry concealed anymore and I've heard the classes have gone to something like a 2 hour online only class, but I haven't taken a CCW class since that first one I took.
The last couple months of firearms sales really has me scared that the number of shootings is going to skyrocket. Not because people are shooting each other, but I fear people are going to be shooting themselves with the lack of ANY firearm knowledge. In a perfect world I wouldn't be against requiring a firearms safety class because I think some sort of class is extremely important for new firearm owners, but I know how the government works so I am 100% against the government getting their hands involved in any constitutional rights because give them an inch and they'll take 35 miles.
I have had a CCW for longer than I can remember, probably 20 something years now. My first renewal class, it was required to do class/range again. Keep in mind this is not the original CHL class, but a RENEWAL class! People were in there renting pistols, because they didn’t have one. (WTF do you have the license for?) Then the targets. Most of the shooting was 7 yards, and only one drill at 15. I had nice tight groups. I look over at people’s silhouettes and it looked they were using fucking bird shot. Crazy shit.
If I read it correctly, most of the problems the OP mentioned could be solved from comprehending the owner's manual that comes with the guns.
But yeah, who does that?
My ccw instructor put on a vest when live shooting started. I had an elderly couple who carried their .22s in fanny packs. The woman got flustered during target qualifying and kept sweeping the instructor. That couple failed the 16 hour course. That being said the rest of the class was fairly firearm competent.
I was at the gun store the other day. A guy in his 40's came in, knew zero about guns, looked at 5 different polymer guns, was sweeping them around in the busy store. Didn't know anything about anything and had no plans to practice, ended up buying a Walther. Kind of scary.
The TX class, when I took mine ~8 years ago, was live fire first, then classroom the rest of the day.
The instructor sent 2 ladies home prior to the class starting, with the emphasis that they get some personal training before taking the course again, as neither had ever fired a handgun before.
The rest of the class seemed a mix of average to above average, as far as the live fire portion.
Crazy one was the guy taking the class with a 10mm Glock. Target looked like it had been shot with slugs when he was done with it.
The Enemy's gate is down.
|Powered by Social Strata||Page 1 2 3|