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I suspect your are correct, that it failed due to cheap manufacturing. Well, I paid a low price. I should expect lower quality and plan accordingly.

I did think that annealing referred to a process of heat-treating the mouth portion of the case to...well, I'm not sure why. But I don't know why a casing would "lose" it's annealing. I thought it either was, or was not.

I loaded some old, old brass today. Some of it was .45ACP from Armscorp from 1982 or so. It worked for reloading (after cleaning.) I fired 50 rounds successfully. There was no damage to the case, particularly around the mouth.

Odd.
 
Posts: 13581 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Annealing is a process to make brass softer and more pliable. Being a process, you cannot lose the annealing. Perhaps she mistakenly means that the brass has hardened with age. However, I have never heard of brass hardening except from being worked. Brass is created by drawing a brass button over mandrels to form the case. This definitely works the brass and makes it harder. Most likely the brass was not properly annealed after being drawn during manufacture, not from storage.

I have a case of 303 Brit manufactured in 1944. It shoots fine and doesn't split. If stored brass did "lose its annealing"(hardens), that stuff should be splitting wide open.



[i]
 
Posts: 5063 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
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quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Annealing is a process to make brass softer and more pliable. Being a process, you cannot lose the annealing. Perhaps she mistakenly means that the brass has hardened with age. However, I have never heard of brass hardening except from being worked. Brass is created by drawing a brass button over mandrels to form the case. This definitely works the brass and makes it harder. Most likely the brass was not properly annealed after being drawn during manufacture, not from storage.

I have a case of 303 Brit manufactured in 1944. It shoots fine and doesn't split. If stored brass did "lose its annealing"(hardens), that stuff should be splitting wide open.


This. What you got was an excuse that said "We really don't have any idea and it's not worth the costs of our time to find out what was wrong. Here, go away!"

Either way, good that they responded and made you whole.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
 
Posts: 18700 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Annealing is a process to make brass softer and more pliable. Being a process, you cannot lose the annealing. Perhaps she mistakenly means that the brass has hardened with age. However, I have never heard of brass hardening except from being worked. Brass is created by drawing a brass button over mandrels to form the case. This definitely works the brass and makes it harder. Most likely the brass was not properly annealed after being drawn during manufacture, not from storage.

I have a case of 303 Brit manufactured in 1944. It shoots fine and doesn't split. If stored brass did "lose its annealing"(hardens), that stuff should be splitting wide open.


Brass does lose it's annealing as it gets older, I believe from microscopic corrosion. As brass ages, it gets stiffer...... A common practice on the older large diesels (MTU, etc.) that use copper washers (since the engines are dinosaurs the parts sit on the shelf a long time) is to put the copper washers on a metal coat hanger and heat the hell out of them and let them cool off, before using them on the motor to soften them back up so they "crush".
 
Posts: 14921 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
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quote:
Originally posted by rduckwor:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Annealing is a process to make brass softer and more pliable. Being a process, you cannot lose the annealing. Perhaps she mistakenly means that the brass has hardened with age. However, I have never heard of brass hardening except from being worked. Brass is created by drawing a brass button over mandrels to form the case. This definitely works the brass and makes it harder. Most likely the brass was not properly annealed after being drawn during manufacture, not from storage.

I have a case of 303 Brit manufactured in 1944. It shoots fine and doesn't split. If stored brass did "lose its annealing"(hardens), that stuff should be splitting wide open.


This. What you got was an excuse that said "We really don't have any idea and it's not worth the costs of our time to find out what was wrong. Here, go away!"
Agreed. I'm not a metallurgist, but I am a metallurgical junkie (the topic fascinates the engineer in me so I read a lot as well as hang out with a lot of oil & gas metallurgists). I found zilch after checking a few references as well as Google.

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Brass does lose it's annealing as it gets older, I believe from microscopic corrosion.
Corrosion is not loss of annealing, corrosion is a loss of electrons. Annealed brass is one of the alloys susceptible to stress corrosion cracking, but that isn't the OP's issue (if it was, the OP would have had split cartridges).

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
As brass ages, it gets stiffer...... A common practice on the older large diesels (MTU, etc.) that use copper washers (since the engines are dinosaurs the parts sit on the shelf a long time) is to put the copper washers on a metal coat hanger and heat the hell out of them and let them cool off, before using them on the motor to soften them back up so they "crush".
You can't compare copper and brass. Once the copper has been alloyed with the zinc, it behaves as the new alloy. Cartridge brass has about 150% the tensile strength of pure copper, but significantly less conductivity. Additionally, cartridge brass has different cold working and hot working properties than copper. They manipulate the % of zinc in the alloy to achieve the desired cold working and hot working properties.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 14817 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I recieved 500 rounds of .38 special a few minutes ago. I'll never know what happened, most likely, but I do know that in my 50 years of gun ownership and shooting I never had a similar experience. Oh well.
 
Posts: 13581 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
'Murica
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Had a similar issue with some .44 magnums which turned out to be too light of a crimp.


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Posts: 3121 | Location: Canfield, Ohio | Registered: October 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
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OP,
I once had a brand new S&W scandium 357 I was going to carry off duty, so I had to qualify with it.

I went to the range and promptly kablammoed it on the second round....the first round was a squib and the second one did the work of two.

I called S&W to see how to send it in for repair and they asked what kinda ammo I was using, (Winchester) and they asked to send it along with the gun.

a week goes by and I call to give them my Visa number and the gunsmith who was working on it talked with me. they never wanted a card number and repaired it free of charge and forwarded it to Winchester to have them investigate the ammo.

I never heard anything further about the ammo.

Glad that you and your gun didn't get hurt



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers


 
Posts: 4755 | Location: 35-46.02N 077-55.54W | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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