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Hi Guys,

After 20 years of sitting in the safe I decided to resurrect my old-school P229 .40 SW. with the legacy slide (I have components for 4K rounds of ammo and the stay-at-home orders seemed like a good time to load them up). I loaded up some test rounds and 3/10 failed due to light strikes. Since I live next to CCI/Speer and work with a good gunsmith we checked the firing pin strikes with a fancy tool and they were just a hair too shallow, so I ordered a new firing pin from Sig. Turns out the old pin is exactly the same length as the new pin and the whole problem was caused by a reduced power mainspring.

The old solid style solid firing-pin-retainer-pin can't go back into the slide and the one Sig sent me is a new style short spiral pin. To make matters worse, in the 5 weeks it took for the firing pin to arrive my safety lock and safety lock spring went MIA (yet, the firing pin and spring are right in the case where I thought I put all the parts). I called Sig and the customer service guy said he is not allowed to send out the old style pin. So, here are my options:

1. Get the firing pin retainer pin from Brownells and the safety lock and safety lock spring from Sig and put it back together myself. Parts are $26 + shipping.

2. Send the slide to Sig and let the custom shop fix it for me. Cost is $15 for shipping and $30 for labor (normally $50). The lost parts are included.

3. Send the whole gun to Sig and have them refurbish it. This would be great but the gun has maybe 1K rounds through it and looks new as it is. On the other hand, I would have all new springs and they replace any worn out parts. Then again, they might end up undoing my customization's, including the SRT. Cost is $85 and Sig will waive the $55 shipping fee.

(On a side note, the CS rep at Sig, Adam, was very professional and did what he could to be fair and help me out.)

I'd appreciate your opinions on door #1, #2, or #3. Just writing down my options has me thinking that #3 is the best return on investment, even though it is way more money than I want to spend on this right now. Who would have thought a simple $3 solid pin would become such an expensive pain in the arse.

Thanks,

sl93z
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That's just the
Flomax talking
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Unless your original firing pin positioning pin is hopelesly buggered up you can reinstall it by lightly filing down the splines on the fat end. You want the pin to still be snug but without having to use a press. I have done this twice with no problems. You can also try to line up the splines with the grooves cut into the slide by the original installation.
 
Posts: 11761 | Location: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: February 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have been able to find firing pin positioning pins on ebay, all the different types. You said legacy slide, is that a folded steel one? at one time they were in the 229 spare parts kits. I have a friend that has done every sort of work on his sigs. He is fearless but is leery of the firing pin position pin. I have only ever had trouble with one of them and was on a folded steel 226 slide. Are you looking for the two piece inner and outer positioning pins? I would go with door number 2 I think
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That's just the
Flomax talking
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quote:
You said legacy slide, is that a folded steel one?

There is no folded steel P229 slide.
 
Posts: 11761 | Location: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: February 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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GaryBF: The old pin is way too buggered up to go back in, and was so hard to get out I wouldn't even want to try it.

markstempski: GaryBF is correct; the slide on a 229 is solid bar stock and milled (228 is stamped). The legacy slide is from the early 229 and can be identified by the short external extractor and half-height rear cocking serrations. The newer slide has a long external extractor and full height rear serrations. The later is referred to as the P229-1/E2 (that's pronounced E squared).

After further research it appears that there are a few minute differences in various iterations of the 229, most of which had to do with accommodating a 9mm barrel to the 40/357 slide and others with switching to the "universal" long extractor that works on the 229, 226, and various other "modern" Sig slides. There are enough little idiosyncrasies in this model that makes me think I really should just let the custom shop do their work on it and pay the price. The only way I wouldn't do that is if I could find my original safety lock and safety lock spring; then I'd just do what GaryBF said and find a firing pin positioning pin online.

Interestingly, the SRT on my 229 was original from the factory but was never touted as having such. My 226 Dark Elite on the other hand, which was marketed as having a SRT, does NOT have the SRT.

Thanks for your suggestions. :-)
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by sl93z:
GaryBF: The old pin is way too buggered up to go back in, and was so hard to get out I wouldn't even want to try it.

markstempski: GaryBF is correct; the slide on a 229 is solid bar stock and milled (228 is stamped). The legacy slide is from the early 229 and can be identified by the short external extractor and half-height rear cocking serrations. The newer slide has a long external extractor and full height rear serrations. The later is referred to as the P229-1/E2 (that's pronounced E squared).

After further research it appears that there are a few minute differences in various iterations of the 229, most of which had to do with accommodating a 9mm barrel to the 40/357 slide and others with switching to the "universal" long extractor that works on the 229, 226, and various other "modern" Sig slides. There are enough little idiosyncrasies in this model that makes me think I really should just let the custom shop do their work on it and pay the price. The only way I wouldn't do that is if I could find my original safety lock and safety lock spring; then I'd just do what GaryBF said and find a firing pin positioning pin online.

Interestingly, the SRT on my 229 was original from the factory but was never touted as having such. My 226 Dark Elite on the other hand, which was marketed as having a SRT, does NOT have the SRT.

Thanks for your suggestions. :-)


Didn’t think that there was a folded steel 229 confused by legacy. I looked and one of my 229s meets the description of legacy. I had to replace the short extractor after on of my friends fired a 9mm round in it. Was lucky to get away with just that and burst 9 mm brass to deal with. I hope not to have to change out the firing pin but if I have to I have the necessary punches and such. Sounds to me like a trip back to Sig is in order. I have a 226 Tacops that has the newer position firing pin position pin on the top of the slide. Ah improvements.
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Stempski's ebay comment got me thinking and I just happened to find all the parts I needed there for just under $20 to my door. Looks like I'm back to fixing it myself. Thanks Mark.

A little more detail on this pin in case anyone is interested. It is just a solid pin as opposed to the roll pin most Sigs use. Why Sig went with this I have no idea, but they don't use it on the newer models and as far as I can tell the Legacy 229 is the only slide to use it. The diameter of the pin is metric so none of your "kings english" punches will fit it right. Sig made a special punch to remove the pin that was the correct diameter and had a cupped tip so it would perfectly hold the rounded end of the pin. The end of the pin is convex while the end of the punch is concave so it mates up perfectly and drives the pin out without slipping or deforming the end. On the other hand, a flat tipped punch will flatten the convex head which tends to expand the diameter of the pin and jam it into the hole and in my case made it very difficult to get out (I'm sure others have removed the pin using a flat head punch without trouble, but in this case is was terrible; YMMV).

I'd driven the pin out about 3mm when my taper punch reached the hole's diameter and I had to switch to roll punch. 1/8 was a hair too big so I had to use my 1/16 punch. A few whacks later the punch broke. Rather than risk further damage I took the slide to the machine shop at the college where we have an instructor who is also a credentialed gunsmith and is quite good at his work. First thing he noticed was the mm size of the pin and that he didn't have a punch that would fit it correctly. He started working on it with a 1/16 punch and broke it. He then picked up a 1/8 punch, took it to a belt sander, and turned it down to where it would just fit the hole; being careful not to go to fast and ruin the steel's hardening, then buffing it out to make it nice and smooth. After 2 minutes of tapping we got nowhere, then exercised the hammer principle: "There is no problem a big enough hammer cannot fix." Wink A bigger ball peen and some gentle persuasion got the pin moving and eventually out.

The lesson for me on this was that I should have just been happy when I fixed the light strikes by putting in the proper mainspring; but I was so curious to see just how much deeper the firing pin strikes would be that I kept going. This is one of those situation where I learned a valuable lesson from "If it ain't broke, fix it till it is."
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Glad that things worked out. I had a folded steel 226 slide with a broken firing pin position pin. I ended up with all kinds of punches and finally got the right combination to handle the two piece positioning pin. Is now a backup slide though because got a new one with the Sig exchange kit so now sports Romeo sight with back up irons. better for my old eyes anyway. And I have decent good punches for just about everything.
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The correct punch is easily available and I wouldn't suggest trying if you don't have one.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 8854 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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According to the order pages of my usual sources Sig quit making it long ago. Brownell's has one 3mm but it is short. If you have a source for the proper ones could you share it? Thanks.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by sl93z:
According to the order pages of my usual sources Sig quit making it long ago. Brownell's has one 3mm but it is short. If you have a source for the proper ones could you share it? Thanks.


Is just to get the pin started isn’t it. I will look but I think is one of the many I have acquired over the years. And yeah probably got from Brownells. I looked at my other 229 ah yes the positioning pins from hell. Short punch to get it started and are reputed to be as hard as the hinges of hell to remove, machine presses brought in. Now to see if that pin wants to be removed from the left side or the right. Right to left it seems, please correct me if necessary.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: markstempski,
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My look at brownells shows both the short and long available. In addition I see quite a few at other sites. In addition in the commercial market the Starrett not quite the correct size is readily available and completely usable. This of course assumed that manual is OK. I've have to resort to more serious tools as well.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 8854 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by hrcjon:
My look at brownells shows both the short and long available. In addition I see quite a few at other sites. In addition in the commercial market the Starrett not quite the correct size is readily available and completely usable. This of course assumed that manual is OK. I've have to resort to more serious tools as well.


I am glad my other 229 doesn’t have the damnable thing. looks like the spiral ones. Starrett used to be decent punches hopefully have not been chinafied. My buddy who has taken every other bit of his sigs apart and filed and smoothed has had nothing to do with the Firing pin position pin. I am done with them until forced to deal with them and even then, gunsmith or back to Sig I think
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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hrcjon: check out this review of the Brownell's 3 mm punch.

"Bought it to drive out a broken sig sp2340 firing pin positioning pin. The pin came out easy enough. Hammering the new one back in though, the punch failed so fast it's useless and the pin didn't even get half way in. I dont' know what kind of steel this thing is made of but it might as well be pot metal. The cup tip is now a convex tip so it can't even be held over the pin, on top of that because it failed so easily causing the metal to squish down and the punch to slam into the frame of my gun the finish on my sig pro which was immaculate is now marred, despite the claim that these keep your pins looking nice the top of my new pin i also ordered is a train wreck, AND i have to take it to a gun smith and spend the extra cash to drive that pin in because i don't have time to wait for a replacement before a shooting trip i got coming up. If this isn't an unlucky bad punch, avoid at all costs. Will be seeing about getting my money back or a replacement if i just got a bad one."

My only question is why did he use the punch to drive in the new pin rather than the head of the hammer? Yes, use a pin for the last mm or so to seat it properly, but not at the start when that pin is sticking out 24 mm high. And to be truthful, I never expected this pin to be so hard to drive out and figured the 1/8 I had would work OK, and in most cases it would have been; except for this one.

stempski: I agree. Once I get this firing pin back together I don't plan to ever take it apart again. But for an additional $3.95 I did order an extra positioning pin to go with my new firing pin--just in case.


While I'm here, may I say how much I appreciate how civil and helpful this forum is. I don't post much but do lurk and read a lot, and seldom do I see an intentionally malicious statement.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Those inner outer pins just aren't worth taking out and replacing yourself. I've mushroomed several punches and pins trying to do that as an armorer for a PD. Unless your having a problem, leave them be, or a press is the only way.
Not sure why Sig made those older pins so darn hard to replace.
 
Posts: 610 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Solid pins were used on P226's as well, but I don't know if they are the same length as the P229 pins. I found some of the pins to be flaky, probably faulty manufacturing, such as shearing off the splines during installation and then fitting loose, etc. I've had some luck reusing solid pins. Also had some bad luck installing both used and new pins, so check them during the first 50-100 rounds that it doesn't walk back out. Just a guess but all of that may be one reason Sig went back to roll pins?

Cupped-tip punches from Brownell's work fine for me on the solid pins. I use the short cupped punch just to start removal, and a flat-tipped straight punch to finish driving the pin out of the slide. A bench block helps, or you can substitute a piece of 2x4 with a hole drilled in it to catch the pin. I use a brass hammer to install the pin, getting it close while reinstalling, then finish seating the pin with the short cupped punch.
 
Posts: 1012 | Location: Yorktown, VA | Registered: October 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Assuming you were using CCI primers, a switch to Federal primers might have avoided all this drama.

Just sayin.
 
Posts: 21 | Registered: May 11, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Alpha Bravo:
Assuming you were using CCI primers, a switch to Federal primers might have avoided all this drama.

Just sayin.


Careful; those are fightin words where I live. Smile (even though both brands are owned by the same company).
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Lewiston, ID | Registered: November 27, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by motorheadjohn:
Solid pins were used on P226's as well, but I don't know if they are the same length as the P229 pins. I found some of the pins to be flaky, probably faulty manufacturing, such as shearing off the splines during installation and then fitting loose, etc. I've had some luck reusing solid pins. Also had some bad luck installing both used and new pins, so check them during the first 50-100 rounds that it doesn't walk back out. Just a guess but all of that may be one reason Sig went back to roll pins?

Cupped-tip punches from Brownell's work fine for me on the solid pins. I use the short cupped punch just to start removal, and a flat-tipped straight punch to finish driving the pin out of the slide. A bench block helps, or you can substitute a piece of 2x4 with a hole drilled in it to catch the pin. I use a brass hammer to install the pin, getting it close while reinstalling, then finish seating the pin with the short cupped punch.


I absolutely concur with this the cup punches mostly to get things started and to finish off. I suspect that some of these parts, the position pins are just poorly made and Sig should be ashamed of itself.

I remember a slew of take down levers made in India, garbage all of them. As it is I went with aftermarket milled ones from armory craft for all my sigs. The latest ones are like twice the price of the sig take down lever and well worth it.

I have champagne tastes and a beer budget but some of these parts just need to be better.
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by sl93z:
hrcjon: check out this review of the Brownell's 3 mm punch.

"Bought it to drive out a broken sig sp2340 firing pin positioning pin. The pin came out easy enough. Hammering the new one back in though, the punch failed so fast it's useless and the pin didn't even get half way in. I dont' know what kind of steel this thing is made of but it might as well be pot metal. The cup tip is now a convex tip so it can't even be held over the pin, on top of that because it failed so easily causing the metal to squish down and the punch to slam into the frame of my gun the finish on my sig pro which was immaculate is now marred, despite the claim that these keep your pins looking nice the top of my new pin i also ordered is a train wreck, AND i have to take it to a gun smith and spend the extra cash to drive that pin in because i don't have time to wait for a replacement before a shooting trip i got coming up. If this isn't an unlucky bad punch, avoid at all costs. Will be seeing about getting my money back or a replacement if i just got a bad one."

My only question is why did he use the punch to drive in the new pin rather than the head of the hammer? Yes, use a pin for the last mm or so to seat it properly, but not at the start when that pin is sticking out 24 mm high. And to be truthful, I never expected this pin to be so hard to drive out and figured the 1/8 I had would work OK, and in most cases it would have been; except for this one.

stempski: I agree. Once I get this firing pin back together I don't plan to ever take it apart again. But for an additional $3.95 I did order an extra positioning pin to go with my new firing pin--just in case.


While I'm here, may I say how much I appreciate how civil and helpful this forum is. I don't post much but do lurk and read a lot, and seldom do I see an intentionally malicious statement.



Agree is a superlative forum. So many people have helped me with a variety of issues and not just sigs, have saved me all kinds of mistakes and money and time.
 
Posts: 1258 | Location: Duvall WA, USA | Registered: February 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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