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After 24,000 rounds, I sent my P226 DAK to a gunsmith for a "rebuild" (changing any worn out part and replace all the springs). The pistol came back and is behaving like a DA/SA and the trigger pull us much higher than normal.

My full reset pull now is 12 lb and half reset pull is 9 lb.
I believe the DAK full reset pull is 6.5 lb and half reset pull is 8 lb.
The gunsmith told me - I just need to have the parts worn out a bit. But for a 12 lb full pull, I am looking for a second opinion.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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If the full trigger reset stroke pull weight is heavier than the short reset stroke, then something is wrong. I can’t really imagine what might have caused such a condition unless the trigger bar and/or hammer were replaced and there is a problem with their interface.

Something that could result in a much heavier trigger pull is if your pistol is old enough that it wasn’t originally equipped with the red DAK mainspring, and the ’smith installed the red spring. Plus, even if you originally had a red mainspring, installing a new spring will usually increase pull weights for the first few hundred trigger pulls.

The DAK sear spring is lighter than the DA/SA version, so if he installed the latter type, that would increase the trigger pull a bit, but probably not a huge amount. Replacing the safety lock spring and trigger bar springs might increase the trigger pull weight a little, but again I wouldn’t expect a major increase.

If the gunsmith followed the SIG parts maintenance schedule, he should have replaced the firing pin, extractor, and their springs, but that wouldn’t have had any effect on trigger pull characteristics.

None of that should increase the full reset pull weight to 12 pounds, and certainly shouldn’t cause the full stroke weight to be greater than the short reset pull weight.

Do you know exactly which parts were replaced?




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38754 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Additional comments:

Except for the parts listed on the maintenance schedule, no parts should have required replacing unless there was something obviously wrong with them. Except for some of the springs, none of the parts on the schedule have any effect on the trigger pull weight or smoothness. There is therefore no reason why any “wearing in” of the parts should be necessary to achieve the same smoothness and pull weight that you had before the gun was worked on.

One thing that occurred to me is whether the sear was replaced. There’s no reason it should have been, but if it was because the gunsmith thought it looked worn or just because he could sell you a new one, I would want to know if he used the proper type of sear. After the DAK trigger system was introduced, the sears of the P226 and most other Classic line pistols were modified slightly to permit the sear to rotate further before the hammer was released. If the older unmodified sear was installed in a DAK pistol, it would probably contact the sear spring pin before letoff. That might prevent the hammer from releasing at all, but if it was marginal, it might only require more force be applied to the trigger to move the sear far enough to release the hammer.

That’s just speculation, of course, but it’s something I’d check. I believe the sear rotates farther when the trigger is fully reset rather than when the short reset point is used, and if I’m right about the sear, that could possibly account for why the full reset pull is heavier than the short reset pull.

Again my question would be what parts were replaced?




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38754 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Take it back to the smith that worked on it.
 
Posts: 5938 | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Greymann
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Find a real Sig armorer in your area. Did he give back your used parts? Top Gun Supply has very good Sig DVD to disassemble change springs, assembly ect. But I'm sure you'll get running like new.
 
Posts: 313 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: March 21, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by ulsterman:
Take it back to the smith that worked on it.


With one exception, I stopped relying on “professional” gunsmiths to work on my guns long, long ago. What I learned even earlier was that if a job was screwed up the first time, there was very little chance things would improve the second time after someone was confronted with a botched job. If someone isn’t competent and conscientious to do the job right, why do we believe that will suddenly change?




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38754 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the comment.
To give this thread more info. The DAK was sent to a professional gunsmith at first to replace any worn spring and parts. I am not sure what spring and parts were changed. But I know that a main spring/hammer spring was changed (not with a red hammer spring though). The new hammer spring was longer than my original spring.
Right there, the DAK began to behave like a DA/SA. 10-11 lb on a DA trigger pull, and 6 lb on a SA pull. I talked to the gunsmith twice and took back the pistol once. DA/SA pull still there.
Then I contacted the Canadian Sig distributor and their in-house gunsmith. He believed that he knew what was the issue so I sent the DAK to this 2nd gunsmith. He changed the main spring/hammer spring to a red colour spring. He changed the Locking Insert because it took some damage when my Recoil Spring failed. He changed the barrel as I had a squib load and the barrel hit the Locking Insert when the Recoil Spring failed.
Anyways, I got the DAK back. The first thing I noticed was the DA pull is now over range on my trigger pull gauge (max 12 lb). And the DAK is still behaving like a DA/SA. That is when I got the comment that just keep using the pistol to "wear in" the spring and the trigger pull will eventually be lowered.
So I did a post on the forum to get a 2nd opinion as there were not many DAK Sig imported into Canada.
Last night I decided to google DAK assembly on youtube and noticed a comment on one video about finding the sweet spot where the Hammer Strut is connected to the Hammer. I took apart the DAK to investigate this sweet spot.
Well the Hammer Strut was NOT connected to the Hammer at the sweet spot (i.e. when the Hammer drops, the Hammer Strut was not pushed downwards). Took a bit of effort to re-assemble everything.

Took the DAK to the range and to function test. Fired about 200 rounds. Now this is what I found after the range session.
DA trigger pull is now = 9 lb
SA trigger pull is now = 7.5 lb
1st reset trigger pull is now 8 lb.
So I think I have found the problem. I am hoping the DA trigger pull continue to decrease once the spring is worn in but the 1st reset trigger pull is meeting the DAK specification.
Thanks for all your comment - now it makes me very concern on who can service a Sig pistol in my area. I may have to do the work for myself from now on.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm glad you found a problem with the hammer strut position, but I'm confused by your list of pull weights. How can you get a SA pull weight on a DAK? There's the pull weight from the long reset (trigger fully released), and the pull weight from the short reset. How did you come up with three different weights?


<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Posts: 5160 | Location: S.A., TX | Registered: July 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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DA trigger pull (no slide racking) = long reset (trigger fully released)
SA trigger pull (rack the slide) with trigger fully released
1st reset trigger pull (no slide racking) = pull weight from the short reset

My SA trigger pull is very close to the 1st reset trigger pull (7.5 lb vs 8 lb) so they are similar.
Each measurement of trigger pull is a an average of about 10 separate trigger pulls.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
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I think your DA and SA (1st two listings) are the same thing on a DAK. Just a variation in measurement on your scale...

Racking the slide doesn't change anything on a DAK and even for your first listing - the slide had to be racked at some point right ?


------------------
SBrooks
 
Posts: 3065 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by ulsterman:
Take it back to the smith that worked on it.


With one exception, I stopped relying on “professional” gunsmiths to work on my guns long, long ago. What I learned even earlier was that if a job was screwed up the first time, there was very little chance things would improve the second time after someone was confronted with a botched job. If someone isn’t competent and conscientious to do the job right, why do we believe that will suddenly change?


Because they are human and make mistakes. Give them a shot at fixing it. Not everyone is incompetent.
 
Posts: 5938 | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I decided to pull trigger one way by not racking the slide and then another way by racking the slide just to see what was the measurement. The reading is after pull the trigger 10 times each way and taking the average.

Well, in regard to taking it back to the gunsmiths, I took it back to the 1st gunsmith and I got a 10 lb pull. And the 1st gunsmith cannot figure out how to get to 6.5 lb pull (even after I told him the spec). As for the 2nd gunsmith, he claimed he knew the issue. After his 'fix', the trigger went to 12 lb. Also, I have to ship the DAK out to these gunsmiths. From now on, I will investigate the issue myself first before even shipping the DAK to the gunsmith.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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May I suggest you call SIG in New Hampshire... I think they will be able to give you good advice... I'm sure sending the gun to the U.S. for service would be a major goat rope, but I would expect they can tell you where to get factory quality repair work in Canada...

Of course there could be a simple fix they can tell you on the phone...

In any case the factory usually gives good advice.

FWIW

Chuck


Hoist on High the Bonny Blue Flag that Bears the Single Star!!!

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Posts: 1272 | Location: Florida, CSA | Registered: September 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My 2nd gunsmith who worked on the DAK is from the Sig Canada Warranty Centre, and he still manage to set the trigger pull at 12 lb.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Working on SIG Classic line pistols, including the DAK versions, is not difficult. If I were in your situation at this point, I would review some of the DVDs on the guns and dig into that gun myself. The DAK parts are somewhat different (no decocker assembly, for example), Despite the fact that both people who worked on the pistol are professional gunsmiths (and don’t get me started on that subject), if the pull weight is 12 pounds and there is something else going on with how the trigger operates, then something is wrong. If someone installed an improper part for some reason, it may be difficult for you to determine that, but if you disassembled the gun and posted photos of the parts here, someone might be able to recognize an issue like that. If a part was installed incorrectly, you might recognize that yourself, but at worst when you assemble the gun you could be certain it was done correctly.

I don’t know how common DAKs are there, but if it’s like in the U.S., the fact that most ’smiths don’t know anything about them would not be surprising. To reiterate, if the gun was working properly before it was worked on, and wasn’t working properly after, then someone—no doubt the first guy—screwed something up. If that happened, the second probably doesn’t know enough to recognize the problem and fix it.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38754 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of highlander81
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quote:
Originally posted by coldarea145:
My 2nd gunsmith who worked on the DAK is from the Sig Canada Warranty Centre, and he still manage to set the trigger pull at 12 lb.


If your Sig was worked on by an MD Charlton armourer , they should be qualified. Anyone else would be questionable.

MD Charlton Company is the ONLY distributor Andy warranty centre for Sig in Canada.
 
Posts: 412 | Location: Southern Alberta, Canada | Registered: April 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, the 2nd gunsmith is with MD Charlton, and he still managed to "set" my trigger pull to 12 lb.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: October 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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