Round is stuck in barrel. Looks like a FTF but the round is wedged in the barrel.

Bullet still attached to shell casing.

The round is approx 1" in from the chamber end of the barrel.
What's the proper technique to remove this without a castrophe of a loaded round going off.

It does look like the primer has been fired. The end of the casing is all grey and scarred.

thanks for any help.

Chamber end of the barrel looking at scarred casing.


muzzle end of the barrel looking at bullet

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lmm,

A "stovepipe" is a failure to eject in which the fired cartridge case ends up trapped in the ejection port, mouth up. It does not involve an unfired cartridge with the bullet still in the case.

Can you provide additional information or, even better, a photo of what's going on?

Unfortunately the upper photo is too out of focus to tell much of anything from it. Nevertheless, it doesn't look like fired case is still in the chamber to me. It seems as though we are looking at the open concave base of a typical 9mm FMJ bullet. I do not see the primer and head of the cartridge case that I would expect.

Is it possible the case was ejected after you fired the round and you didn't notice it?

I believe you had a typical squib load, which means that whatever powder was in the cartridge (possibly none) was not sufficient to drive the bullet out of the barrel. Depending upon the position of what you see in the barrel, it's also possible that you had more than one squib and that there is more than one bullet in the barrel. One squib bullet is relatively easy to remove, especially with a proper squib rod, but two (or more) not so much.

What ammunition were you firing? Are you sure you noticed the problem immediately after it occurred, or is it possible you fired another round after the first squib?

Although some more and better photos would help, at this point I would find a gunsmith for assistance. If there's only one bullet in the barrel, removing it is not too difficult, but if the wrong tools and methods are used, you could end up with a worse problem and possibly damage to the barrel.

Added: A final comment about terminology.

When referring to firearms ammunition, "round" is an imprecise term than can be confusing if you're discussing this problem with someone else. Round was originally a military artillery term. A lot of artillery ammunition was not "fixed," and consisted of separate powder charges, propellant containers, and primers. Round is everything in one package, and the equivalent of a complete cartridge, except that "cartridge" was used for small arms ammunition.

Later usage of round became corrupted and now it's loosely used to refer to both the projectile (bullet) and complete cartridge, often interchangeably. Using the term can therefore cause confusion. As you said about the second photo, it depicts a bullet stuck in the barrel. I believe that's also true of the first picture. If you talk to a gunsmith about this, that's what I'd tell him.

This is not intended as criticism, BTW. Many people make this same kind of mistake through ignorance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Unfortunately the upper photo is too out of focus to tell much of anything from it. Nevertheless, it doesn't look like fired case is still in the chamber to me. It seems as though we are looking at the open concave base of a typical 9mm FMJ bullet. I do not see the primer and head of the cartridge case that I would expect.

Is it possible the case was ejected after you fired the round and you didn't notice it?

I believe you had a typical squib load, which means that whatever powder was in the cartridge (possibly none) was not sufficient to drive the bullet out of the barrel. Depending upon the position of what you see in the barrel, it's also possible that you had more than one squib and that there are more than one bullet in the barrel. One squib bullet is relatively easy to remove, especially with a proper squib rod, but two (or more) not so much.

What ammunition were you firing? Are you sure you noticed the problem immediately after it occurred, or is it possible you fired another round after the first squib?

Although some more and better photos would help, at this point I would find a gunsmith for assistance. If there's only one bullet in the barrel, removing it is not too difficult, but if the wrong tools and methods are used, you could end up with a worse problem and possibly damage to the barrel.

+1. If you like your barrel, let a pro help you with this one. Or you could take your chance with a dowel and hammer.

[DISCLAIMER: By following what is about to be recommended the reader acknowledges that this advice is made available with no warranty, guarantee, or assurance of any kind whatsoever that it will work as described, will work for the purposes the reader intends or in the way the reader wants, or that the advice will not harm the reader, the reader's firearms, all plant, animal, or other forms of life, minerals, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, forms of matter, antimatter, or dark matter in a 500,000,000 light year radius, or anything else whatsoever. The reader further guarantees that neither Sigforum, its owners, moderators, or members, especially sig2340 are in any way shape or form liable or responsible for any damage, injury, insult, illness, or plain old bad karma that results from following this advice.]

I agree it looks like a typical squib.

1. Measure in from the muzzle to the bullet. Record this measurement.

2. Measure in from the chamber to the bullet. Record this measurement.

3. Subtract measurement 2 and measurement 1 from LOA (LOA - M1 - M2 = x).

If x is 0.75 inches or less, odds are it is a single bullet lodged in the barrel.

If x is > 1.0 inches it is two bullets. If two bullets, stop and taske the barrel to a gunsmith.

4. Only if you think it is a single bullet, procure a 0.25 inch diameter, 8.0 inch hardwood wooden dowel and a container of quality penetrating oil.

5. Pour penetrating oil into the barrel from the chamber end. Position barrel vertically with chamber up and let sit 24 hours (to allow the oil an opportunity to seep into the space between the barrel and bullet).

6. Empty chamber of pentrating oil. Pour penetrating oil into the barrel from the muzzle end. Position barrel vertically with muzzle up and let sit 24 hours (again to allow the oil an opportunity to seep into the space between the barrel and bullet).

7. Empty out pentrating oil. Place wooden dowel down the barrel from the muzzle end and let the dowel rest against the nose of the bullet lodged in the barrel.

6. Place the barrel vertically on a sturdy surface, chamber down, muzzle up. Make sure this is a surface you do not mind marring. (i.e. using an original Louis XIV table is probably a bad choice).

7. Holding the barrel firmly in a gloved hand, strike the end of the dowel that is sticking out of the muzzle sharply with a hammer. Strike with a fair amount of force, but not with a Viking beserker death blow. Be careful not to hit your hand or the barrel.

8. Repeat no more than four times. If bullet is removed, I recommend having a gunsmith examine it with a borescope. If not removed by fourth blow, take to a gunsmith.

Good luck.

[DISCLAIMER: By following what is about to be recommended the reader acknowledges that this advice is made available with no warranty, guarantee, or assurance of any kind whatsoever that it will work as described, will work for the purposes the reader intends or in the way the reader wants, or that the advice will not harm the reader, the reader's firearms, all plant, animal, or other forms of life, minerals, molecules, atoms, subatomic particles, forms of matter, antimatter, or dark matter in a 500,000,000 light year radius, or anything else whatsoever. The reader further guarantees that neither Sigforum, its owners, moderators, or members, especailly sig2340 are in any way shape or form liable or responsible for any damage, injury, insult, illness, or plain old bad karma that results from following this advice.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sig2340,

How in the hell did that happen? Reloads?

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
How in the hell did that happen? Reloads?

It not unheard of with factory ammo. I had a brand new Federal .223 REM squib lodge a bullet in the barrel of my AR15. It stopped almost dead center in the middle of the barrel.

This last year I have had three incidents with factory pistol ammo: a squib (primer only, easily removed), an overloaded cartridge (felt and sounded like a 10mm Auto in my .40 S&W), and an inverted primer.

QC has declined in the ammo world.

New Fiocchi 130gr leadless primer.

M1 = 2.5" (from the muzzle end)
M2 = .75 (from the chamber end)

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
[DISCLAIMER:
1. Measure in from the muzzle to the bullet. Record this measurement.

2. Measure in from the chamber to the bullet. Record this measurement.

3. Subtract measurement 2 from measurement 1 (M1 - M2 = x).

If x is 0.75 inches or less, odds are it is a single bullet lodged in the barrel.

If x is > 1.0 inches it is two bullets. If two bullets, stop and taske the barrel to a gunsmith.

The P228 barrel is 3.90 inches long. You measured 2.50 from the muzzle and .75 from the chamber for a total of 3.25 inches. 3.90-3.25 leaves 0.65 inches unaccounted for. That sounds like one bullet to me. Try to drive it out with a dowel as described above. Good luck.

can someone define 'penetrating oil'?

Is that like 3-in-1 oil or CLP or ????

quote:

Originally posted by lmm:
can someone define 'penetrating oil'?

Is that like 3-in-1 oil or CLP or ????

Kroil, CRC 5-56, 3-1, WD-40 etc. anything very light viscosity

I found my 6" muzzleloading bullet starter is perfect for pounding out squibs. the threaded hole fits on the tip of the bullet.

I put the barrel in a leather padded vice and just knock it free.

I wonder how they clear squibs in combat situations?

I don't see any way to get a case shoved up the barrel without some real some real excitment. I suppose you could discharge a second bullet on a ftf, but I think you might be cleaning underware first.


Russ

quote:

Originally posted by russab:
I wonder how they clear squibs in combat situations?

Apparently, your ****ed at that point, unless you want to use your secondary. The proper protocol is the break contact and get to safety. One other guy with a weapon is sent back with you just in case.

I assumed this is a reload. As other information that Gary and Sig2340 pointed out, with your data sheet, you should be able to determine if the bullet and case has seperated. If they are and the case still has chance to be extracted by P228 (the case is NOT into the chamber that extractor has no chance), I will try to put the gun back together and racking the slide to get the case out first. After I get the case out, I will try to work the bullet. If there is no chance at all for the extractor to work, I will try the method Sig2340 suggested, be sure you only work from the bullet end, hammer on the primer is never a good idea, even the fired one.

quote:

Originally posted by russab:
I wonder how they clear squibs in combat situations?

If it's not military combat involving an extended firefight, there's not much that can be done.

I saw a squib in a class that happened to a shooter while running a combat drill. Fortunately the lodged bullet kept the next cartridge from chambering. The shooter made several attempts to clear the malfunction using the usual methods until he realized there was something else going on. Even though the instructor had a squib rod handy, the whole process of getting the gun fixed took about 10 minutes. Any real life combat would probably have been long over in that period, especially if the shooter had been fighting a BG by himself.

Another time one of my trainees experienced a strange discharge with reduced report and a failure to cycle the slide. In that case, however, I could see smoke curling out the muzzle, and I told him to clear the malfunction and keep going. In retrospect that was a serious mistake on my part for a training situation. I should not have been so confident of my analysis of what had happened and we should have checked the barrel. I was right and in a gunfight I would have done the same thing, but it wasn't appropriate at the range.

In military combat and assuming the shooter realizes it's a squib before clearing the empty case and firing another round, it may be possible to remove the bullet with a steel cleaning rod and something to hit it with. That may damage the bore, but at least it will allow the fight to continue. That's obviously only possible if the shooter can rely upon cover and protection from others.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by lmm:
can someone define 'penetrating oil'?

Is that like 3-in-1 oil or CLP or ????

Kroil, CRC 5-56, 3-1, WD-40 etc. anything very light viscosity

Get Kroil.

The one thing about starting shooting in competition black powder is you learn some simple basic skills.
If you are seating a tight bullet, you start them with a starter and a mallet. You learn how to start a bullet without touching the barrel.
With my 6 inch stainless steel bullet starter, I could clear a squib in about 10 seconds. If it was not right at the crown, I could probably do it without touching the barrel.
Just put the rod on the bullet and use the gun as a hammer. If I was in mud or sand, I might have to use the heel of my boot.

I have been shooting up a bunch of poor quality ammo and am sensitive to light loads. I have also had three squibs in 1200 rounds. If my slide does not cycle or the load is light, I check my barrel to insure it is clear.
I was impressed my bianchi military holser came with a plastic jag that is perfect to checking the barrel.
Maybe this lousy ammo has been a blessing in disquise, as I sure have develop a good feel for differences in recoil.

Russ

A squib rod such as this is good to keep with you at the range. I've had a squib round occur with new Federal ammunition followed by a catastrophic event because I did not accurately notice the difference in how the squib round reported or felt in recoil.

bought a dowel rod and with a single swing of a mallet the squib came right out.

thanks for the help.