SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Armorer    Arbor press for roll pins?

Moderators: Chris Orndorff

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Arbor press for roll pins? Login/Join 
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted
Anyone use an arbor press to remove/install roll pins in your firearms? Specifically - P series pistols? Any recommendations on: brands, size (1 ton/half ton), useful attachments, techniques?
 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I've never encountered a roll pin that I couldn't remove with a roll pin punch. Some require a starter punch but I've never used a press.

An arbor press can be pretty handy forsome solid pins, like the P238/938 trigger pin. When I removed a similar pin from a Colt Mustang I used a drill press (not running) with a cup tipped punch in the chuck. It gave me enough leverage to remove the pin.

Check Harbor Freight for a small press that may cover gunsmithing needs.

Dave

Dave
 
Posts: 231 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 30, 2014Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
I too have never felt the need for an arbor press for roll pins. I put the slide on a piece of 2×4 lumber with a hole drilled to allow the pin to come out and pound away.

When installing two roll pins in slides that use them, I drive the larger pin in about 2/3 of the way with a hammer. (It may be necessary to ensure the firing pin is pushed forward so it doesn’t get in the way of the roll pin.) I then insert the smaller pin into the larger and carefully tap it in until it’s flush with the larger. Finally I drive them both into position. It may be necessary to use a punch to get the two pins slightly below the surface of the slide.

When I toured the SIG factory years ago I saw an arbor press with a short cup-tip punch that was used for installing solid firing pin positioning pins. I don’t know what its rating was, but it was a HUGE tool. Removing the solid pins in particular can require a lot of force. At least one gunsmith I know sometimes resorts to drilling them out.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 36458 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted Hide Post
Removing them is not a problem. I'm more concerned with cosmetics when hammering them back in place. An arbor press is a more controllable tool and might keep me from leaving pecker tracks on my slidesWink
 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
That’s probably a good idea. I have thus far managed to avoid marring any slides by going slowly and using roll pin punches for the last part of the process.

But then the only SIGs that have roll pins in their slides that I normally work on belong to the agency and no one much cares about another ding or two. Wink




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 36458 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
That's just the
Flomax talking
Picture of GaryBF
posted Hide Post
quote:
An arbor press is a more controllable tool and might keep me from leaving pecker tracks on my slides

With my experience I might argue with you on that thought. I foolishly bought a 1 ton arbor press to use on SIG stainless steel slides. I quickly learned that a 1 ton press was not big enough and that it takes three hands to safely attempt the job-I only have two.

A repeated series of taps with a brass hammer may be more controllable, in my opinion.
 
Posts: 10565 | Location: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: February 04, 2008Report This Post
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave R:
I've never encountered a roll pin that I couldn't remove with a roll pin punch. Some require a starter punch but I've never used a press.

An arbor press can be pretty handy forsome solid pins, like the P238/938 trigger pin. When I removed a similar pin from a Colt Mustang I used a drill press (not running) with a cup tipped punch in the chuck. It gave me enough leverage to remove the pin.

Check Harbor Freight for a small press that may cover gunsmithing needs.

Dave

Dave

Thanks Dave, I bought a 1 ton Klutch arbor press for $70 at Northern T&E just for grins. I suppose the half ton would have done the trick but I wanted to have enough clearance for punches/attachments between the arbor and the base. (My 1/8" roll pin punch is 5 & 1/2" long). There's a magnetized hole in one end of the arbor (1/2" diameter x 7/8" deep) that holds the punches I need to use and allows for clearance. Here's my rig. Haven't actually tried it yet...







 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by GaryBF:
quote:
An arbor press is a more controllable tool and might keep me from leaving pecker tracks on my slides

With my experience I might argue with you on that thought. I foolishly bought a 1 ton arbor press to use on SIG stainless steel slides. I quickly learned that a 1 ton press was not big enough and that it takes three hands to safely attempt the job-I only have two.

A repeated series of taps with a brass hammer may be more controllable, in my opinion.


Really!?! A one ton press was not enough? How many lbs of force can a gunsmiths hammer produce? Any physics professors out there?
 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted Hide Post
Interesting thread on machinist's forum.

"How many tons does a sledge produce?"

http://www.practicalmachinist....ledge-produce-97732/
 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
That's just the
Flomax talking
Picture of GaryBF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Really!?! A one ton press was not enough?

As sigfreund mentioned above, the factory uses a huge press and, yes, 1 ton was not enough for a stainless steel slide.

I caution you, that "column" of arbor, punch, roll pin, and slide may start to buckle as you apply force and you don't have enough hands to prevent it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GaryBF,
 
Posts: 10565 | Location: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: February 04, 2008Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have been successful with hole in 2x4 as mentioned but placing the 2x4 on a concrete floor and using a five pound sledge. Momentum is your friend.

My only problem slides have been P229's which seem to come with at least three variations of roll pins.

Good luck.
 
Posts: 68 | Registered: May 25, 2013Report This Post
Member
Picture of JAFO
posted Hide Post
I think that when Gary said a 1-ton press wasn't enough, he was talking about solid FPPPs on stainless slides, not roll pins on folded slides.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Overheard at an actual match:
"Tapers! Come on, guys, we need tapers!"
"No, my name's Gonzales."
 
Posts: 4797 | Location: S.A., TX | Registered: July 20, 2006Report This Post
Member
Picture of HawkeyeJohn
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the replies.

I've detail stripped a couple of old German SIGs and installed the pins with a hammer and roll pin punches and I'm comfortable with that procedure. I'm always looking for better ways to do things.

Can't remember who, where or when I first heard of using an arbor press but it seemed reasonable. Couldn't find much on line - so I decided to rig something up and run it by you guys. I'll let you know how/if it worksWink

Thanks again.
 
Posts: 347 | Registered: March 29, 2009Report This Post
Member
Picture of bumper
posted Hide Post
What GaryBF said above. I have a Sunnen BP-10K (ten ton electric/hydraulic pin press). It's handy for all manner of jobs, but you soon learn that everything has to be in perfect column, straight as an arrow. Any deviation, especially unsupported, will bow out and, depending on pressure applied, bend things or launch parts horizontally at fearful velocities!

A typical small diameter cup punch would have a working shaft length of maybe 1/2 inch before transitioning to a larger shaft for rigidity.



I made a cup punch for the solid FPPP on the P series to work in the Sunnen, but have never needed to resort to it, it's 9 miles away at my hangar, so it'd take one heck of a tough pin to make the drive worthwhile.
 
Posts: 1136 | Location: Nevada, United States | Registered: April 13, 2010Report This Post
Member
Picture of sleepla8er
posted Hide Post
.

This 6-ton hydraulic press system is comprised of two components that are sold by two different companies.

It is designed to work with all Classic Line Sig Sauer pistols, the P-220, P-226, P-229 and P-239, with a stainless steel slide and a solid, knurled firing pin positioning pin.

It greatly simplifies the removal and installation of these firing pin positioning pins. There is no more hammering the pins in and out and therefore no chance of damaging the pins or more importantly the slide.

The actual 6-ton jack and A-frame shop press shown in the photos below, is in use by a Team of Armorers employed by a major LE Department.



Notice the black "Slide Block" on the left side of the pics, it is part of the kit sold by K and C Barrels. The copper plate was added by one of the Armorers at the LE Department



Harbor Freight sells the jack and A-frame for $80
www.HarborFreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html

K and C Barrels (KandCBarrels@gmail.com) sells the rest of the components for $75.

The K and C kit contains the black “Slide Block” that holds and positions the slide under the punch. The “Slide Block” is designed to work with the P-220, P-226, P-229 and P-239 slides and has an adjustable stop on each end that can be set for each of these slides that automatically aligns the pin under the punch.

The kit also contains a “Punch Holder” that attaches a modified 3 m/m cup point punch onto the press ram. K and C also includes an extended handle for the jack release valve, and all needed nuts, bolts, and other hardware to assemble the system.

K and C Barrels has an $8 add-on kit for Spiral or Roll Pins. This Kit removes and installs the spiral firing pin positioning pins (not in the E2 slides), as well as the double roll pins found in the older carbon steel slides.

In addition to the press kits described above, K and C Barrels has a $15 Stuck/Damaged Pin Removal Kit that uses a drill press and drill press vice to remove pins that have been compressed and enlarged by trying to remove them with a punch and hammer. Again, you must have a drill press and drill press vice to use the stuck/damaged pin kit.

For more information, contact K and C Barrels by phone at (505) 281-1736 or cell phone (505) 239-8736 and their e-mail address is KandCBarrels@gmail.com

I met KC back in 2014, he was the instructor for the Sig Classic Pistol Armorer class that I attended.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sleepla8er,




My Photobucket albums:

1978 Browning BDA .45cal (aka Sig P220 with European Magazine Release):
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...Cal%20aka%20SigP220/

1986 SigSauer P226 with Mud Rails and Full NP3:
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...bar%20NP3%20Coating/

Winchester 1897 WW1 Trenchgun:
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...h%20Gun%2012%20Gage/
 
Posts: 2262 | Location: San Diego, CA  | Registered: July 14, 2009Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  

Closed Topic Closed

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Armorer    Arbor press for roll pins?

© SIGforum 2017