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Hello all,

OK, so SIG now uses and sells Lucas Oil Extreme Duty Gun Grease, which is a good enough recommendation for me. However, the supply of one ounce tubes of this stuff has all but dried up. I read in several places that their Gun Grease is essentially their Marine Grease without the grape smell, a different color, and 1/20th of the cost. Has anyone actually used their Marine Grease in their firearms? I could go to my local auto parts store and get Marine Grease off the self without waiting a week for the Gun Grease to be shipped.

Thank you,
Ian


"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." - Ian Fleming
 
Posts: 499 | Location: MA | Registered: March 08, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not a clue on your question. But if you go to your local parts place and get mobile 1 synthetic grease it will be completely satisfactory.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In some parts of the world people are evidently reduced to using cooking oil for firearms lubrication (per an Armalite discussion). It’s obvious to me from the many posts here about the subject that there are countless oils and other lubes that will work well enough for the average shooter’s purposes. The question is how well will they protect the gun after 15000 rounds or ensure reliability during a concentrated one-day 500-round training session. Most gun owners will never begin to know the answer, but that won’t prevent them from making Internet posts extolling the virtues of the chicken fat they can sneak from the coop next door.

During the first SIG armorer course I attended 15 years ago we were told that the factory recommendation was to use lubricants that were specifically intended for use on firearms. The same recommendation was made during the most recent course I attended a few months ago. It’s been claimed as long as I can recall that certain lubes that cost $10 for a small tube are available in 5-gallon buckets for pennies per ounce. That’s probably true, but I’ve never once seen any validation of the claims beyond “It looks and feels just the same.” What’s more, when a tube holding a few ounces will last me literally years of frequent use, what possible use would I have for a container that will still be half full when I die 20 years from now?

I realize that some people gain intense satisfaction from saving a few cents here or there and sticking it to Big Luba, but there’s more to what we save than money.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 37143 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^^^ Finally...someone doth speaketh the truth. Cool


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An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 3923 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you all, especially sigfreund. I'll await for Lucas Oil Gun Grease to be delivered. Given that my toys have been safe queens for almost a decade (marriage, kids, and divorce will do that), I'll need more than one little tube. :-) It's grape smell will probably be pleasant too. I tried Mobile Oil on an AK once; it worked but it stunk badly!

Ian


"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." - Ian Fleming
 
Posts: 499 | Location: MA | Registered: March 08, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The infantry guys in VN sometimes used mosquito repellant on their M16s, not ideal, but better than nothing, and available. Lucas Marine works well, so does wheel bearing grease, especially the high moly stuff spec'd for Ford front wb's. I think it is also sold, for a price, by Brownell's as Action Lube. To quote the great Bruce Gray, "get some damn grease!"
 
Posts: 1349 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: June 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I tend to avoid lubrication discussions. Why? the facts are that none of the usual parties opinions have been based on any real testing that I can see. I too have been to the sig armourer class and yup they said use 'a' gun grease. When asked ( I know a bit about grease) there was no known basis for that recommendation. Asked if there was any durability testing the answer I got was none that had been communicated to staff. My opinion is that what sig includes in their packaging is a financial decision, not a capability one. If somehow after this post some guru at sig sends me a full comparative test I'll retract that. Now having said that modern full synthetic automotive or heavy equipment greases will not view our application as stressful in terms of either temps, pressure, velocity or any other relevant factor.
Me personally I have more than 100K rounds through pseries sigs and no concerns using mobile 1 synthetic.
Buy what you want.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've got TW25B arriving today. It was shipped with all my SIGs 10-15 years ago, so it should at least not be bad. I'll now be able to re-lube my dust collectors with a decent grease. :-)

Yeah, I now recall the "stick with gun grease" lesson from my armorer courses too. This discussion has been good as a refresher in how to oil and grease my SIGs and ARs. I'll try Lucas Oil Gun Grease, once it becomes available at non-jacked-up prices.

Ian


"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." - Ian Fleming
 
Posts: 499 | Location: MA | Registered: March 08, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hoping for better pharmaceuticals
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Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. Interesting read.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is.
 
Posts: 7965 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: April 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Always love to see different views. ATF is not toxic in any meaningful way according to its msds. But food grade products do have advantages but they are easy to get in packaging other than lubriplate. I often use John Deere extreme duty grease which is both food grade land dielectric.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by hrcjon:
Not a clue on your question. But if you go to your local parts place and get mobile 1 synthetic grease it will be completely satisfactory.


+1

An $8 tub of Mobil 1 will last a lifetime, and does a great job.


_________________________________________________________________________________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater
 
Posts: 1899 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: February 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you are super cheap and want something that works amazingly well. Goto Walmart in tbe Automotive section and pick up a TUB of SuperTech MultiDuty Grease for a dirt cheap $3.97

I use it on my AK, and over and under shotgun grease pounts. Works very well. Many other people use it too with equal success. Nothing to lose.
 
Posts: 1022 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There's a widely held belief that most any grease will work. I have a fairly long background using greases and lubricants in aerospace applications. The lubricants used are quite specific, due to the critical nature and expense of the parts. A number of engine manufacturers require that only one brand and particular type of oil be used; changing brands or any other change requires completely flushing the engine, replacement of all filters, etc.

Mixing or using the wrong lubricants has destroyed aircraft. A very public example was the destruction and loss of Alaska Airlines Flight 261, in which the wrong grease was applied to a jackscrew controlling the horizontal stabilizer. Greases are designed with properties unique to the application. Simply because they're slippery does not mean that they are the right grease.

Greases and lubricants have very specific shear, temperature, lubricity, viscosity, and other properties particular to the application, load, operating conditions, temperature ranges, frequency of use, type of metals, and many other factors. It is absolutely incorrect to assume that grease designed for wheel bearings, for example, is the right grease for a firearm. When faced with the choice of some grease or no grease, one may have little choice, but when one has the opportunity to select a grease formulated or firearms, do it.

Mobil 1, ATF and numerous other oils, greases, lubricants, or just slick snot have been bantied around over the years. I use this in my car, so it must be good in my pistol kind of thinking. It's poor thinking.

Some take pride in putting extended periods on their firearm between cleanings and re-greasing, even though the grease absorbs acids and other chemicals that act against the properties of the grease, add abrasives, increase corrosion, decrease lubrication, change the shear properties in the grease, etc.

Chances are that with frequent re-application of grease on rails and other contact surfaces, a light coating of a typical bearing EP grease will be fine. Not so much for long term use without cleaning and reapplication. Some think it's fine to lubricate their Glock with C5a antiseize, as that's what comes on the firearm rom the factory. Antiseize isn't a high speed lubricant. It's for wet torque on threads and to prevent galling on threads at very low speeds and during long term application. The notion of vegetable oils to lubricate machine parts under load, especially in a firearm, is ridiculous, when nearly any other option is available. For those who use WD40...it's a solvent, not a lubricant, despite what is on the side of the can. That's the opposite of a lubricant, and has absolutely no place being used to lubricate a firearm. It's okay for an emergency cutting oil when drilling. Not for rails or moving parts in a pistol or rifle.

There are a number of lubricants for firearms that are good quality, dedicated greases and oils that work well. Any that claim to be multiple things, such as solvents, cleaners,and lubricants...not so much. A chemical does not fulfill opposing functions; serving as a solvent and cleaner is generally at odds with being a lubricant, despite the labeling to the contrary.

Mixing lubricants can be very risky as the two may actually cause a loss of lubricity and an increase in friction, wear, heat, and damage.

Lubricants which claim to treat the metal and cause a molecular bond, or which claim to fill pores in the metal and treat the metal are not what they claim. No matter what the literature may say, those who claim to leave a dry film or to have impregnated the metal for long lasting, dry lubrication, or that claim that firing the weapon and heating the weapon prior to or just after application will treat the metal...are full of hot air. Don't get suckered in.

You could go all out and get some jet turbine oil like 2380 at forty bucks a quart...but it wouldn't offer an improvement unless you were putting it in a turbine engine. It's not made for firearms. It has some wonderful properties for specific applications. Your firearm isn't one of them. Same or most car products, or nearly any other product not made for your firearm.

I'm not posting to offer an endorsement of a particular product; there are a number of good ones. If you're using your favorite car grease and thinking it's the same or perfect for the task, it's not. If you don't have access to anything else at the time then wheel bearing grease is better than no grease, but you're far better off getting dedicated firearm grease and lubricants.
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As I said above I hate lubrication discussions because the parties involved rarely have any testing to back up their claims. I fully agree that all greases are not created equally. But the comment "but you're far better off getting dedicated firearm grease and lubricants" isn't based on any testing of any kind.
Many/most manufacturers of aerospace products specify what they want because 0) they have to certify their products 1) they know something works and 2) they don't have time/money/resources/benefits to confirm something else will also work. That is simply NOT TRUE for firearms mfg. SIG has no more tested what grease works best on a PSeries gun than I have. I have confirmed this several times. In fact just the opposite I bet there is not a singe reasonable test at sig. But I have 100K plus rounds of experience.
Having some specific knowledge of greases, firearms are not a challenge for any modern synthetic grease. That is simply the facts. They are not too hot, too cold, too fast, with adverse atmosphere's,corrosives etc. Otherwise the human using them would be toast.
In point of fact the best testing I know of is the US Army conducted a test of 'improvised' lubricants for the AR series of guns. So if you were stranded without issued CLP what could you use. The answer is almost anything handy (atf is great, motor oil is great, olive oil works etc. etc.).


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What’s more, when a tube holding a few ounces will last me literally years of frequent use, what possible use would I have for a container that will still be half full when I die 20 years from now?



And there you have it folks!
 
Posts: 295 | Location: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: January 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Unless Sig has done the developing and production of the lubricant, then what Sig has tested is irrelevant.

What testing and development has gone into the lubricant is very relevant, and his has a lot more to do with the science behind the development and formulation than it does to chucking grease on the rails and cooking off ten thousand rounds.

You have 100,000 rounds of experience. During those hundred thousand rounds, how many chemical analysis did you do? How many measurements on wear did you do? Flow and viscosity tests? Oil and grease analysis?

I wouldn't base choice on what the US army uses. The military maintained for a long time that the drier the better, less dust and sand to attract, and fact is, a wet run AR is better, as are nearly all firearms (including Glocks, despite the recommendation for a few drops of oil).

CLP isn't the best choice, either. It never was, and no, it's not a cleaner and a lubricant, despite the name.

Yes, when you have no choice and you've got to go fight, then you're going to use what lubricant you have and pray it works. It's a small nail on which to hang your hat, or your life, but when you're faced with few choices, you take the ones you've got, don't you?

Let's not confuse last-ditch improvised choices with wise ones, when we have a choice. Olive oil is not a good choice. It may be the only choice, and in that case, use it. For those who are in the civil setting and not at war and not forced to use olive oil, there are far better, dedicated choices formulated for the correct application.
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We simply are not on the same page.
1.The original question is someone who is using the fact that SIG includes a specific grease in their packaging and treating that as a recommendation. My contention is that Sig's decision about that is economic and not based on any multi product long term test. I have yet to see any other evidence to the contrary and I have inquired directly to Sig. I'm not saying that the SIG recommended product is a bad one just that its nothing special and if unobtainable you can use lots of other choices.
2. You question the relevance of my experience asking "how many chemical analysis did you do? How many measurements on wear did you do? Flow and viscosity tests? Oil and grease analysis?"
None as I'm sure you might guess. But that's simply not relevant. The common wear point of a PSeries Sig is rail wear. Its easily observable after lots of rounds and this forum is filled with discussions about good and bad wear patterns. I know what the ASTM tests are for the greases I use and I can see them but I simply measure success in this area as acceptable wear patterns on the guns I actually use in actual use. I really don't care about any other criteria.
I would ask for you to provide a reference to any good independent third party testing of dedicated gun greases that show superiority to a high quality synthetic automotive grease. I've searched diligently and never seen one, but maybe you can refer me to one. That's the core issue. published ASTM numbers don't show anything special that I can see for the product at issue here.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 6362 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm on the same page as hrcjon.
 
Posts: 306 | Registered: December 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The responses are always the same and boil down to "I looked at the gun and it looked okay."
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know it is not grease, but I think Vactra #2 would be superb on rails. After all, that is what it is designed for. It is a lubricant for the ways and screws on machine tools.
It has tackifiers to stay in place, Excellent corrosion resistance due to water soluble coolants used, resists mixing with water and washout. And it has ep additives to prevent stutter, or resistance to start moving,
All machine shops keep it on hand, usually in a 55 gallon drum.
I do know that it makes my reloading presses run smoother since I have started using it on them. Does an awesome job on chainsaw bars as well.
 
Posts: 34 | Location: us | Registered: May 10, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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