Just received a Sig 1911 Fastback Emperor Scorpion Carry (FESC) 357Sig.
The first two magazines were fired from bench rest, others off-hand. The point of impact is about 2" low and an inch left. I know I can have the sight pushed to adjust laterally, but am supposing the slide must go back to Sig for new sights.
That about right?
Have you had anyone else shoot it? Does it shoot low/left for them also?
"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper
Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
|That's just the |
At what distance were you shooting and at what distance do you intend to shoot? What bullet weight did you use? Will you always shoot that weight bullet? There are many variables in point of impact. You can bump the front or rear sight to adjust windage. Elevation doesn't matter that much unless you plan to shoot bullseye targets.
Does this help?
I forget where I found this, but it gives an indication of the root of misplaced shots. Tightening my fingers seemed to be the source of my low-and-left shots for a while.
Support our troops, and our veterans.
New favorite quote from the golf course: "It's not the club, son."
This isn't to sound like a brag, just a measure of experience. I have so many rounds of so many weights through so many Sigs and other guns that I know where I hit and why. I had two other Sig 1911s at the range, both 45ACP, and they hit to point of my aim.
Couple weeks ago I had a S&W M&P357 there, two, actually, and was hitting point of aim. Same ammo. Also a P226 X5 All Around, 357 Sig. Hit to point of aim.
Targets were at 10 meters, one of the most common distances I shoot at. I shot two magazines of two different makes of ammo, both 125-gr bullets, from an MTM rest on a table before shooting off-hand, standing.
The gun hits two inches low, one left.
I think that if the solution is to send it to Sig, I will instead buy and install Novak 1911 Adjustable night sights. I put in a question to them about height of the front one. I'm half thinking Sig may have put .45ACP sights on the gun. Just a guess.
Seems like you've eliminated the shooter error issues that comprise 95% of the POA/POI issues usually posted.
Do the sights have identifying numbers (i.e. 6, 8 etc.) like the P-series Sigs? If so, I'd call Sig CS and confirm. If not, I'd call them anyway and see if there is any way to identify the sights currently installed.
If you just call and state your issue, they're going to initially presume it's the usual, common shooter error thing. Give them a brief description of your testing protocol and experience with your other Sigs to eliminate the skepticism.
Even if you have the correct sights, it's possible that your specific pistol shoots to a slightly different POI (vertical). Sig should be able to determine that if it is returned. If this is pistol specific on the vertical axis, replacing the sights with another brand probably won't solve it. Only a lower front sight will.
Obviously an inch left on the horizontal can be easily rectified with drifting the rear sight. That's something of a non-issue.
An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
|That's just the |
That's not bragging. You established your credibility as an experienced shooter, so you should know what to do, either try a different bullet weight or change your sights.
Nipper, you pretty much hit it.
I did call customer svc. I'm not happy with the answer, but I guess I understand it.
I gave Timothy the ID on the sights and he checked. I asked if perhaps they had put .45ACP sights on it, when it is chambered for 357Sig. he checked and found Sig uses the same sights for both guns.
We talked about personal techniques a lot. I've been trained with and carried P-series Sigs since the late '70s and have always been trained for a "6 o'clock" hold. That's what I've been trained to do since the '60s.
WELL, seems Sig uses a "combat sight picture" in which the front sight actually covers the point of impact. I can only say that through a dozen personally-owned P-series, and several times that many issued to me, I have always used the 6 o'clock hold. Frankly, I'm not comfortable with a hold that covers the target.
It somewhat reminds me of "point blank." The term is grossly misused by a lot of people, to mean shooting at a target that is very close. Not so. It is reference to a distance up to which the shooter may aim directly at the target, usually a midpoint, and be assured of hitting it. If you have ever watched long-range black powder rifle shooting, say, out to 1,000 yards, THAT is not point blank because the aimpoint is waaay above the target. That's a quick and dirty, but you should get the idea.
For me, and as I was long trained, it is desirable to aim to hit vital points even at longer ranges, which I would describe as out to 75 yards (max for me, EVER). Any Sig I have ever handled, and most other guns, can be aimed so as to hit designated areas at that distance. BUT, *I* had to be able to see the intended point of impact.
So I returned to the range with the FESC/357Sig and used this "combat" sight picture. Still hitting as much as two inches below where I think I should be hitting, though as advised, closer to target center.
It may be "correct", but I don't like it. I'm going to ask if Sig offers sights of different heights so I can use the 6 o'clock hold.
I also contacted Novak. I had NO idea Novak is not at ALL happy with Sig, stating that Sig has ripped off their designs! One difference, they say, is that Sig uses a dovetail cut in the slide that is different, perhaps even proprietary. Back in the Dark Days before SigLite sights were available (Sorry, I couldn't resist that), I sent several Sigs to Novak for installation of their LoMount night sights. For a modest fee they also checked sight compatibility with ammo choice. Well worth it. They now offer an adjustable tritium rear sight that requires their .225" front sight. The slide must be sent to them or recut by a VERY GOOD machinist to fit their sights. If Sig doesn't offer something suitable, I guess I'll bite the bullet and send the slide to Novak.
I just don't like that "combat" hold.
I have a full write-up of my impression of the Fastback Emperor Scorpion Carry 357Sig I can post. I just can't put pix of the guns or targets because I don't use any of those "hosting" sites, and don't especially want to. I read their privacy blurbs and their claim to the pix.
Just as a teaser, bench-rest shots at 20-meter targets make groups that can be covered with a silver dollar. Wish I could do that off-hand . . ..
|Powered by Social Strata|