SIG's Spring and Parts Replacement Schedule - Topic Powered by eve community

I'm gonna bump this up top. I needed the info, so maybe someone else will too.

Posts: 693 | Location: Dayton, Ohio | Registered: July 25, 2007

Ignored post by BigDisAwesome posted

fortysixandtwo1974

Banned

Posted

I now know what a bump is. I was afraid to ask.

Posts: 281 | Location: Carrollton Texas | Registered: September 02, 2007

Ignored post by fortysixandtwo1974 posted

Pasch

Member

Posted

Quick question, if this was covered somewhere earlier and I missed it apologies.

In regards to firing pin and firing pin spring, does dry firing the pistol add towards the total count? Or is this replacement plan only for live rounds fired?

I wouldn't think there would be a huge difference in regards to the firing pin specifically.

Posts: 219 | Location: Washington | Registered: February 20, 2008

Ignored post by Pasch posted

Freethinker

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pasch:
In regards to firing pin and firing pin spring, does dry firing the pistol add towards the total count?

Dry firing causes as much wear on some parts as live fire and should be included in the total. Dry firing without a good snap cap is even harder on the firing pin than live fire. Don't ask me for any conversion figures, however, because I don't know of any.

In addition to the firing pin spring, dry-firing should be included in the round count for the trigger bar spring and safety lock spring.

FWIW, though, I've never heard of any catastrophic failures with the above springs except for the trigger bar spring.

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
_{— Leo Tolstoy}

Posts: 17855 | Location: 10,170 Feet Above Sea Level In Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002

Ignored post by sigfreund posted

fortysixandtwo1974

Banned

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by detroit192:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
You're welcome, everyone.

I was prepared to try to pry some of this information out of the instructor/SIG rep because other than the recoil spring, I've never seen any "official" recommendations in my previous two certification courses or any other dealings with SIG. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I was flipping through the new armorer's manual and there it was.

Well dang I was hoping not to have an excuse to spend another $400 on an armorers course for two more years. I might have to go if they hold one near the ATL in the next year.

Did they come out with a final DAK manual section? Early last year we still were getting photocopied handouts. BTW I still dislike DAK sears.

One final question, I know this should be in a new thread, but on the Main Spring. Is the orginal (non-red) DAK spring available for a P229 from SIG? Or OEM available elsewhere? (TGS prefered)

detroit,
I hate DAK sears too. I fully stripped my new 229 SAK SAS the other day and I cant find a use for the sear other than "stacking" the trigger. It appears to me to just be a DA/SA sear tossed in there. The SA tooth is there but of course there is no corresponding notch in the hammer. I think they should have used a different sear with a lighter sear spring. I bent my sear spring slightly and have greatly reduced
"stacking" but it seems to me the sear is just an afterthought part that is there to save production money and keep the gun from slam-firing; which can be accomplished other ways.

Posts: 281 | Location: Carrollton Texas | Registered: September 02, 2007

Ignored post by fortysixandtwo1974 posted

Member

Posted

sigfreund, Greetings. Did you cover the stamped slide inner and outer pin replacement? I seem to remember something like a 5000 rounds replacement so the locking block does not come loose. And that these pins, should they come loose, contributes to cracked slides?
zzz

Posts: 2213 | Location: NV | Registered: July 04, 2004

Ignored post by f2 posted

Freethinker

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by f2:
sigfreund, Greetings. Did you cover the stamped slide inner and outer pin replacement?

No, and unfortunately with the discontinuance of models with roll pins and removeable breechblocks, they are being ignored these days.

I believe, however, that 5000 rounds is a good number. My department has mostly old style P220s and I recently decided to increase the breechblock removal schedule from every two years to every three. The officers don't shoot enough to get to 5K in that time and after seeing what the innards look like after two years, adding a year to the cycle seems safe enough even for guns carried in open duty holsters.

I'm not saying it never happens, but I've never seen or heard of a cracked slide that could be attributed to loose retention pins. Roll pins seem to be much less susceptible to actual breakage than solid pins, but they do loosen up and even break on occasion.

Posts: 17855 | Location: 10,170 Feet Above Sea Level In Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002

Ignored post by sigfreund posted

Member

Posted

Thanks sigfreund.
zzz

Posts: 2213 | Location: NV | Registered: July 04, 2004

Ignored post by f2 posted

Member

Posted

Ok, I found the post - thread: Sig P228 Value?. It was made my ToddG over at m4carbine.net:

quote:
The biggest difference in terms of durability is related to preventive maintenance. Properly maintained, a P228 or stamped P226 will last a very, very long time. But to maximize the durability of the gun, you must replace the two roll pins in the slide every 5,000 rounds. The roll pins keep the breech block in place, which in turn provides rigidity to the slide. If the steel slide is not adequately rigid, the will flex under load (when the gun fires). When the steel slide flexes, it puts torque on the full length aluminum frame rails, which then have a tendency to crack. SIGs had a reputation in the 80's & 90's for cracked frames, and this is the primary culprit.

The stainless one-piece slide doesn't have this problem because the breech block area is just machined into the slide rather than being a separate (pinned in) part. While there is a pin in the same location in the slide, it's a single solid pin as opposed to the two concentric roll pins. The solid pin's only purpose is to keep the firing pin in place when the firing pin lock is pressed. It doesn't ever need to be replaced, though SIG recommends replacing it whenever it is removed from the slide because it is a knurled pin.

Posts: 2213 | Location: NV | Registered: July 04, 2004

Ignored post by f2 posted

Freethinker

Posted

Thanks very much, f2, for that. It's definitely horse's mouth-level information.

Posts: 17855 | Location: 10,170 Feet Above Sea Level In Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002

Ignored post by sigfreund posted

wrightd

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Hayseed_40:
AFter only less than 1000 rounds on a new p220 carry, my recoil sping has lost about 3/8" in overall length and the center strand is out about 3/16". This doesn't sound normal - is it?

My new p220 carry did the same thing. I snipped the end of the extruding center strand off. I didn't know it was "normal". Oops. Still shoots fine, though. I guess I'd do it again unless someone tells me why it's a bad idead. I didn't want it scratching stuff up.

"Go ahead, skin it! Skin that smokewagon and see what happens... " Wyatt Earp in Tombstone

Posts: 378 | Registered: February 01, 2008

Ignored post by wrightd posted

tenringx

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
The following is SIG SAUER's current parts replacement schedule (numbers of rounds), with some comments of my own:

Barrel: If the pistol exhibits keyholing or unacceptable accuracy.
Decocking lever spring: 10,000
Extractor: 20,000
Extractor spring: 20,000
Firing pin: 20,000
Firing pin spring: 20,000
Magazine spring: When magazine fails to lock the slide open. *
Recoil spring: 5,000 †
Roll pins for breechblock retention (pins, HD): 5000‡
Safety lock spring: 20,000
Slide catch lever spring: 10,000
Takedown lever: 20,000
Trigger bar spring: 10,000

Mainspring (hammer spring): SIG SAUER evidently makes no formal recommendation about the mainspring, but as noted below, lbj was told by customer service that guns with 40,000 rounds are still igniting their ammunition with the original spring. If ignition problems do develop and can't be determined to be due to other reasons, a new mainspring would be a good idea.

* I also recommend replacing the magazine spring when ammunition is not held securely. This can occur before slide lock failures.

† I had seen an early recommendation here that the recoil spring be replaced after 3000 rounds, and that's what I follow.

‡ See discussion of the breechblock pins on page 4 of this thread.

Added for the armorers: Something else I found out in the course yesterday is that SIG considers the extractor used in P220 stainless steel slides to be a "sacrificial" part, and that it should be replaced after it's removed from the slide.

I know these are recommendations from the factory, but I have 15,000 rnds through my 229 and 10,000 rnds through my 228 and never replaced anything in the guns and they function perfectly and the accuracy is still the same.

So why are they recommending a 5000 replacement for the recoil spring?

Posts: 39 | Location: Dauphin Pa. | Registered: April 13, 2007

Ignored post by tenringx posted

kanhunter

Member

Posted

I was told by my Armorer's instructor that, It isn't a case of not being usable; but, a case of keeping the factory specifications.
At 5000 rd the recoil spring drops below the factory service spec's.

"It is easier to fight against a loss than to ever get it back after you lose it. " Joe Nava

Posts: 403 | Location: Southern Kansas | Registered: September 20, 2007

Ignored post by kanhunter posted

Freethinker

Posted

The migrating center strand of recoil springs that have one shouldn't be cut off because it serves as an indication of when the spring should be replaced. If it moves out beyond a quarter turn, install a new one. This is, BTW, a separate standard that has nothing to do with round count, but doesn't substitute for the round count standard.

Recoil springs slow the slide in recoil and push it back into battery during the loading stage. If they lose too much strength, the gun suffers more battering and wear and chambering malfunctions could occur.

Posts: 17855 | Location: 10,170 Feet Above Sea Level In Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002

Ignored post by sigfreund posted

X_ring

Junior Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
The following is SIG SAUER's current parts replacement schedule (numbers of rounds), with some comments of my own:

Barrel: If the pistol exhibits keyholing or unacceptable accuracy.
Decocking lever spring: 10,000
Extractor: 20,000
Extractor spring: 20,000
Firing pin: 20,000
Firing pin spring: 20,000
Magazine spring: When magazine fails to lock the slide open. *
Recoil spring: 5,000 †
Roll pins for breechblock retention (pins, HD): 5000‡
Safety lock spring: 20,000
Slide catch lever spring: 10,000
Takedown lever: 20,000
Trigger bar spring: 10,000

Mainspring (hammer spring): SIG SAUER evidently makes no formal recommendation about the mainspring, but as noted below, lbj was told by customer service that guns with 40,000 rounds are still igniting their ammunition with the original spring. If ignition problems do develop and can't be determined to be due to other reasons, a new mainspring would be a good idea.

* I also recommend replacing the magazine spring when ammunition is not held securely. This can occur before slide lock failures.

† I had seen an early recommendation here that the recoil spring be replaced after 3000 rounds, and that's what I follow.

‡ See discussion of the breechblock pins on page 4 of this thread.

Added for the armorers: Something else I found out in the course yesterday is that SIG considers the extractor used in P220 stainless steel slides to be a "sacrificial" part, and that it should be replaced after it's removed from the slide.

I found the remark about the extractor intersting. They now say to pitch it after removal? We remove and re-install them all the time. Anyone else?

Posts: 1 | Registered: August 19, 2008

Ignored post by X_ring posted

CBG

Member

Posted

I have recently experienced ()after approx 500 rounds) been exposed to a mag catch spring failure in a P220. I spoke with SIG and this is highly unusual. SIG will replace all the springs for approx $79.00 (pistol is 6 years old).......seems reasonable to me.

Chuck

Posts: 91 | Location: Southeast USA | Registered: August 30, 2002

Ignored post by CBG posted

Freethinker

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by CBG:
I have recently experienced ()after approx 500 rounds) been exposed to a mag catch spring failure in a P220.

I remember your other thread on this subject and was wondering how things had turned out. How did you determine it was a spring failure? I assume you disassembled the magazine catch—correct? How did that job go with the mag catch jammed? Or did you send the gun back to SIG for service?

Posts: 17855 | Location: 10,170 Feet Above Sea Level In Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002

Ignored post by sigfreund posted

Tempest

Member

Posted

quote:
But to maximize the durability of the gun, you must replace the two roll pins in the slide every 5,000 rounds. The roll pins keep the breech block in place, which in turn provides rigidity to the slide.

Not an expert here, but that seems like too often unless the pins are taken out a lot. The pins do hold the block in place but they receive very little stress as the front of the block is mortised into the top of the slide. This is where the vast majority of the force is transfered, not the pins.

TEMPEST

Posts: 956 | Location: Las Vegas Nv | Registered: May 12, 2005

Ignored post by Tempest posted

budam

Member

Posted

quote:
The solid pin's only purpose is to keep the firing pin in place when the firing pin lock is pressed. It doesn't ever need to be replaced, though SIG recommends replacing it whenever it is removed from the slide because it is a knurled pin.

I will disagree from personal experience about the solid pin. From my personal P229 in 357SIG, the pin does get deformed from firing pin strikes after many K rounds. It may be from large number of rounds through gun, but I would always check them and if you see deformation occurring, use a new pin...

mark

Alan Keyes is as Pro-Gun as they come! Even Automatics!
See http://www.alankeyes.com/video?clip=070501issues3 for what Alan says.

Posts: 150 | Registered: July 23, 2003

Ignored post by budam posted

dave7378

Member

Posted

Great post Sigfreund. Do you recommend that course to the average shooter? I purchased the armorer's video and was able to convert my DAK back to DA/SA with no problem as well as change the sights on two 226's to night sights(I'll admit the front sights were a serious challenge though). I was thinking about the course, but after watching the video, I felt pretty good about what I needed to do as far as regular maintenance.

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Posts: 1124 | Location: Hampton Bays, NY | Registered: October 14, 2006

Ignored post by dave7378 posted