quote:

Originally posted by lbj:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
SIG SAUER makes no recommendation about the mainspring.

Why is that?

Good question, but it's not listed in the maintenance schedule of my manual and I didn't notice any mention of it elsewhere. It was never discussed in my previous two armorer courses.

I do know that mainsprings can wear out, but the only experience I've had with that was an aftermarket, lower-power spring by Wolff. Even that spring went 5500 rounds before misfires occurred. Perhaps it just doesn't happen with stock factory springs during the normal service life of SIG handguns.

I've thought about contacting George Harris (head of the SIG SAUER Academy) about another question or two, and if I do, I'll ask about the mainspring.

No need to change the mainspring. Just start using Federal primers in your reloads.

quote:

Barrel: If the pistol exhibits keyholing or unacceptable accuracy.

What's keyholing mean? Also, its weird they would list the springs to be changed at 10,000 when they reccomend a 5,000/1 year service which includes changing the listed springs with the parts kit.

The tumbling of a bullet; the bullet going through the target sideways.

This is the service schedule that was provided along with the above parts schedule:

Operator - Clean and Lubricate: After every firing or exposure to water chemicals, dirt, or other contaminants.
Operator - Clean and Lubricate: Annually during storage.
Operator - Clean and Lubricate: Monthly when carried as duty weapon.
Operator - Function Check: Whenever disassembled and reassembled.
Armorer - Field strip and inspect for proper maintenance: Annually.
Armorer - Detailed disassembly and inspection: Every three years or 5000 rounds fired.

The detailed disassembly does not necessarily include spring replacements.

Thanks for posting the parts replacement schedule from your recent armorer's class. There has been quite a bit of discussion on this forum as to this schedule and I prefer knowing the manufacturer's recommendations. I'll add them to my notes from the class I took. I appreciate you sharing this information.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

I've thought about contacting George Harris (head of the SIG SAUER Academy) about another question or two, and if I do, I'll ask about the mainspring.

Good idea. Ask him about how he maintains his personal P-226. His maintenance schedule is a tribute to Sig reliability.

Sigfreund, good info!

Thread drift: I am curious. Did they mention what kind of average alloy frame (e.g. P220) life they're seeing now? Historically it was claimed they tested to 20k, but this parts replacement would imply that the average frame should last considerably longer. For my own purposes, I've always used 40k for planning purposes as time to replace/limit to training use only. [I know this topic has been beat to death . . .]

quote:

Originally posted by KeithY:
Did they mention what kind of average alloy frame (e.g. P220) life they're seeing now?

Alas, no. All the information I posted above (except for my own recommendations/opinions) was from the manual. I didn't think to ask the instructor the question you raise, and for reasons I won't elaborate on, I don't believe it would have been productive if I had.
I don't want that to sound, BTW, as though I consider myself the great SIG expert; far from it.

quote:

I don't want that to sound, BTW, as though I consider myself the great SIG expert; far from it.

Sigfreund, I don't think any of us ever mistook that. I simply enjoy your clarity of advice and opinion. There are a few others who I equally respect, but alas, I think most of us are far behind the experience curve.

Thank you!
-Keith

Keith, for what it's worth, the SIG Academy has loaner guns with literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. I don't think I'll shoot out any of my SIG's.

6guns: Thanks.

Great info sigfreund. Was that schedule 9mm specific?

zzz

quote:

Originally posted by f2:
Great info sigfreund. Was that schedule 9mm specific?

No, it's general and doesn't specify gun or chambering.

Sigfreund:

I've been through the armorer course twice, originally in 2003 and then recertified in 2006. The first time we covered the P-series (both stamped and SS slide versions) including the 232 and the sigpro. The second time only the P-series (no 232 nor sigpro), but both the SA/DA and DAK trigger systems. What pistols did you cover in your most recent class? Thanks.

Interesting question. I attended in 2002 and 2005 before my most recent course. The first two times it was the Classic-series, including SS and carbon steel slides, and Pro-series. We did DA/SA and DAK the second time.
We didn't get into the P232 either time.

This time it was just the Classic-series, both DA/SA and DAK. Without the Pro, it was tough filling 16 hours—and we didn't. I had hopes we would cover the P250, but I see that's a one day class of its own.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Interesting question. I attended in 2002 and 2005 before my most recent course. The first two times it was the Classic-series, including SS and carbon steel slides, and Pro-series. We did DA/SA and DAK the second time.
We didn't get into the P232 either time.

This time it was just the Classic-series, both DA/SA and DAK. Without the Pro, it was tough filling 16 hours—and we didn't. I had hopes we would cover the P250, but I see that's a one day class of its own.

The only reason we got to review the 232 initially was that during lunch we pestered George into going over it with us.

I hope that SIG doesn't relegate each of its pistol systems to its own course (although that may be what they have in mind from what you've mentioned above).

I think a day on the classic P-series (both SS and carbon steel, including both DA/SA and DAK trigger systems) and a day on the 2022 and 250 would not be pushing how much students can handle in two days. I due to recertify next summer, and I'd like to cover all of the primary pistols in one trip, rather than having to arrange for (and pay for) multiple airline tickets, rental cars, rooms at Lamie's, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Ulysses:
I hope that SIG doesn't relegate each of its pistol systems to its own course ....

I agree. I believe they should give a serious look at course content. At a minimum, I'd like to see a one-day P250 course scheduled immediately before or after the Classic series. That would allow attending without all the extra expenses.

In view of the very firm statements that the Pro series is not being discontinued, I found it odd that the Pro was dropped from the course. It never received a lot of attention, but we did get a few tips on the guns. If they're still going to be available for purchase by LE agencies, one would think that would still be useful.

Okay, I'm making myself crazy here this morning. After the question about mainspring life was raised, I'm sure someone said they'd talked to SIG and was told it was 40,000 rounds. Did that information ever get posted here, or was it just something I got in an exchange of e-mails?

That was me in an email to you.

I was ordering parts from Sigarms errr Sig Sauer about 2 weeks ago.

Guy was very knowledgeable about the exact parts I wanted in order to update an early 90s P228 to a post 2002 P228 which included newer style grips, the new redesigned trigger bar spring plus the newer mainspring, mainspring seat and shorter trigger bar.

Since he seemed to know immediately what I would need, I mentioned that we here at Sigforum were wondering why there is no Sig recommendation for when to replace mainsprings.

He said that in the last 10 years or so and thousands of guns that Sig had had in for repair, less than 10 guns or something were in need of mainspring replacement.
He said it is so rare for the mainspring to fail that that is why there is no recommendation for replacement.

I cannot recall how the conservation came about regarding the 40K though but I think I was told some high round count guns up to 40K were still just fine.

Oh and using my new official armorer skills recently, the rebuild on my P228 went just great BTW and all the parts that Sig sent me were the correct ones in order to update this older P228 to the newer redesigned current models.