quote:

Originally posted by Another-Bill:
So, today my P229 came home from the SIG Custom Shop. I sent it in to have 3 things done, 1) converted from DAK to DA/SA, 2) a SRT (Short Reset Trigger) and 3) their AEP (Action Enhancement Package). I used their $55 VIP round trip FedEx option and it shipped out on Friday the 24th of May and arrived there on 28th (the 27th was Memorial Day). I got notice that it was being returned on the 31st and it arrived today, the 4th of June, that is damned fast. I wondered if they forgot something, they didn't. So I pull my Lyman electronic trigger pull gauge out and for an average of 20 pulls here is what I am now getting, and these numbers seem lighter than expected. I pulled 10 and thought I was doing something wrong, I repeated it and I was very careful to keep the roller on the middle the trigger and pulling straight back: 20 pulls in DA is 5 pounds and 6 ounces, SA is 2 pounds and 3.8 ounces.

What I can say is “Wow!”, all of this with these results in 4 shop days is outstanding. I will have to get to the range with to see how well it ignites the primmers.

Not disputing your numbers, but that's very strange! DA pull is directly related to cocking the hammer and compressing the mainspring. A smoothed action job and a 18 or 19 lb spring will get you 8 lb DA pull or a hair under. That's physics, work to be done and levers.

Suggest checking your trigger pull gauge with a gallon of water, should be 8.34 lbs plus a bit for the container.

As to SA pull at under 3 lbs, that is mostly about reducing the sears positive engagement angle. Typically about half from 16 or 17 degrees to about 8 or 9. The positive angle of the sear has to cam the hammer back in SA in order to release from the hammer notch, the camming further compresses the mainspring a tiny bit (look at the hammer from the side while dry firing slowly to see it) and that is the major component of SA pull.

Hi! Bruce here. I saw this thread and am happy to provide accurate information on our current services and ship times. It’s been a long time since I updated the folks here on what we actually do. I hafta apologise for that void, which has naturally been filled with speculation and odd anecdotes about whatever.

Our shop time for P-Series work is stated as <4 weeks, but in practise runs half that. 10 days door-to-door is typical based on my recent audit. Additionally, we have a short wait queue to minimise that turnaround. Very few problematic projects ever take months these days, largely owing to our greatly increased capabilities and organic focus on quality at every level. We guarantee everything we do for life, and always have. Everyone goes off happy unless they simply don’t want to be.

Important!

We no longer perform the traditional action enhancement work on P226, 228, 229, 220 and 225 models using all the original factory parts, which I pioneered earlier in my career. Back then, it was the best we could do, but those days are thankfully gone (except for select LE clients who are restricted to OEM parts). We developed a full array of very high quality, tool-steel machined enhanced-leverage upgrade components for these models, and our work fully integrates them. The results we obtain are unequalled in every respect. Our ELS packages typically reduce DA pulls by 22 to 26%, with factory springs and stock values for safety and ignition.

This performance is also available in a drop-in adjustable kit form, to fit all double-stack 9/357/40 models.

We DO work on SIG Pro pistols and always have, though it’s not advertised. (I famously still carry my SP2022 every day.) I’m sorry if the OP was not given proper info. For now, we offer a basic action detailing, fitting and refinishing service. In January we are transitioning over to our reduced-reset enhanced leverage fire control system, which reduces the DA pull 26% with factory springs, with an amazing reset. We tested and refined this patent-pending system for years as an OEM submission. It’s ready, and you should wait for it.

I see all sorts of pull weights and other attributes claimed for the action work offered by various shops. The reality is that DA pulls below around 9 pounds are obtainable via traditional “action job” methods only by reducing mainspring force, and such springing degrades ignition reliability in proportion. No one sends out DA pulls in the 5’s and 6’s, much less which work reliably, period. That doesn’t necessarily mean folks who make these claims are knowingly falsifying their results, but rather because they aren’t weighing pulls in a consistent, universally accepted manner. We measure all pulls on a line through the trigger at a point corresponding to the centre of the trigger guard space. Other folks intuitively pull the gauge lower on the trigger.

Measured properly and compared apples-to-apples, our P-Series duty systems consistently yield the lowest DA pulls available with factory or duty-rated springs of anything available. For competition and range, nothing comes close. It’s necessary that I make these distinctions in order that folks can make informed choices based on real value. We are not cheap, but we’ve seen everything. I sleep really well at night with our guarantee in place. Thanks for reading all this! If anyone has questions, the best answers will probably come from me or my three dedicated CS staffers.

Happy Thanksgiving!

-Bruce

Very happy to hear this Bruce, thank you for posting!

quote:

Originally posted by Mastrogiacomo:
Very happy to hear this Bruce, thank you for posting!

Thank you! I appreciate this opportunity to explain what we are actually doing. I’m happy to help my fellow Forum members anytime.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Mastrogiacomo:
Well, I was in touch with the Sig Armorer who responded quickly, $75 to install the sights, while Bruce Gray's people, who also responded fast said $50 to install the sights. Neither work on the 2022 although Grays Guns will do so in the near feature so it looks like I'll be just sending the 228. At this point, I'm leaning towards sending it to Grays and have a local person install the sights.

Have Grey Guns do all of it, they do great work. If you're only doing the sites on the 2022, send them the 2022 slide with the 228, they should be able to install the sights with just the slide (ask first).

Bruce.
Can you expand on the short reset ELS?

Is that different than the current ELS? I have two of the EDC/SOT triggers and was going to get the new ELS but if there is something different coming up soon then I'll wait.
Thanks.

Well, it’s very good to hear that things have improved so much.

quote:

organic focus on quality at every level

May I ask what does this mean, please? Several of the gun folks with whom I communicate often were similarly wondering.

Certainly, things appear to be much better than the perfect storm of disappointment that was my experience.

quote:

We guarantee everything we do for life, and always have. Everyone goes off happy unless they simply don’t want to be.

As it appears I am being referred to, either directly or indirectly, I feel compelled to elaborate.

With the surprisingly high cost of the shipping via UPS, which was much more than FedEx (which was not the recommended method), the fact that the wrong work was performed first, because apparently someone did not read the work order, I was then presented with a bill for this incorrect work that was more than was quoted me for the work requested. This was after waiting a year before sending my M11-A1 for DAK conversion, after I was told, yes, it can be done, send it. So, after all these missteps, I was told that the conversion cannot be done.

Imagine the disappointment after all this time waiting and being told the conversion could be performed, sent the pistol, waited more than a year, wrong work done, told what was promised could be done, in fact cannot be done. In the end, an alternative was offered that was not what was requested, and after a year and a half there, finally got the pistol back. What was sent was a pistol in a pristine case, what came back was a case that looked like it had been sitting on a factory floor for several years. No one even bothered to at least wipe it off, let alone keep it somewhere out of such an environment. After all this, I did call and we did speak about all that had happened, but nothing further came of it after this perfect storm of everything that could go wrong did.

The reason this chafes so much is that after this less than stellar experience and then, later, after a time of reading/looking here, I found out about and took a chance to contact the Sig Armorer. We had a very pleasant talk on the phone and after explaining my previous experience, I was assured the DAK conversion would be no problem. I sent the pistol off by FedEx, at reasonable cost and without undue stress, and shockingly, had my pistol back in one week, converted to DAK, just as promised. One week. What a surprise. After all this time and because DAK works with my right hand which has less than 40% function, I finally had what was originally hoped for.

Sure hope things are better for folks, now.

Had the gun for 18 months, did the wrong service and then up-charged for it!
How’s that organic focus on customer service?
Sounds like Robert is the man!!

Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4

ace73, do you realize your avatar is this big?

I don’t know what the problem is.....
It’s set at 60x60!
I’ll have Sigmonkey host a new one.

Ersatzknarf, Would you mind sending me an email with your contact info? (Bruce@grayguns.com) I don’t exactly remember this transaction, at least in the context you described here. I want to make sure you availed yourself of our lifetime guarantee and got your money back, if indeed we charged you for work you did not agree to.

Every now and then, we encounter situations in which we later find out that we can’t perform work we accepted for some reason. I suspect this is one of those situations. I’m guessing you sent us a non-DAK-capable pistol? (If so, we don’t convert them due to durability issues.) It sounds like a mess in any event, probably aggravated by our corporate relocation last November. In any event, please contact me so we can look into your job, make it better than right as required, and tell our own story accurately. Thanks!

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by alinc100:



Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4

I was blown away by this version when I first heard it a few years back. Astounding. Thank you for posting it!

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
Ersatzknarf, Would you mind sending me an email with your contact info? (Bruce (AT) grayguns (DOT) com) I don’t exactly remember this transaction, at least in the context you described here. I want to make sure you availed yourself of our lifetime guarantee and got your money back, if indeed we charged you for work you did not agree to.

Every now and then, we encounter situations in which we later find out that we can’t perform work we accepted for some reason. I suspect this is one of those situations. I’m guessing you sent us a non-DAK-capable pistol? (If so, we don’t convert them due to durability issues.) It sounds like a mess in any event, probably aggravated by our corporate relocation last November. In any event, please contact me so we can look into your job, make it better than right as required, and tell our own story accurately. Thanks!

-Bruce

Mr. Gray,
No, I do not mind. It was a bit ago, so not surprised it is not remembered. If the M11-A1 is not "DAK-capable," then I should not have been advised to send it in the first place. At no point was I advised that was the reason you do not convert them. Yes, it was indeed a mess. No, it was before you moved. I will forward the last email I had sent, after reading a post from Sigfreund regarding how early pistols were converted, when DAK first became available. Lastly, I would be more than glad to get my money back, after this painful first experience dealing with a gunsmith.

Email sent to the address noted.

Recommend you modify or remove your address, so that it is not spammed.

Please advise if you do not receive it in a timely manner. The last invoice number is noted in the subject line.

Just to close this whole issue out, wanted to let folks know that I was contacted by Keith from Gray Guns and have just now spoken with Mr. Gray. He explained about all of the good things going on there and has promised to sort out the issue with my experience. Thank you, Mr. Gray.

quote:

Originally posted by ersatzknarf:
Just to close this whole issue out, wanted to let folks know that I was contacted by Keith from Gray Guns and have just now spoken with Mr. Gray. He explained about all of the good things going on there and has promised to sort out the issue with my experience. Thank you, Mr. Gray.

Good to hear.Sounds like it will work out in the end.

Just a quick update:
It was going on three weeks and hadn't heard anything further, so sent a note to Keith. He responded the same day and said he would check in to what was going on. Seems i was forgotten again, but they got right on it that day and a package arrived by FedEx, today. Glad that is finally taken care of.