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Taking Sig Armorer's Class @ Obetz, OH next week. Login/Join 
Tenacious
Tempestuous
with Integrity
posted
I am taking the Sig Academy Sig Classic Pistol Armorers course @Vance Outdoor-Obetz, OH next Tues and Wed.Is there anything special that I can take with me that would be helpful? Any info or suggestions from someone who has completed the course would be appreciated.
 
Posts: 485 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hoping for better pharmaceuticals
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When I took the course, I went to Sig's factory. Their course is very good. They will give you an Armorer's manual and walk through the assembly and disassembly of the classic gun. I don't know if they will include any special instruction on the 250, 320 lines. All necessary equipment was provided us. The final was a written test as well as putting all the participants' parts to assemble each gun into a bucke and shake it around. You then decide which parts are needed to assemble your gun correctly. There are no added parts to confuse the attendees so each should have a working gun at the end of class.




Getting shot is no achievement. Hitting your enemy is. FFL(01) NRA Endowment Member
 
Posts: 8501 | Location: Peoria, Arizona | Registered: April 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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.

The Classis Sig Pistol Class does not cover the P250, P320, or P365 those are separate classes. Although, the last time I was on the Academy's website there were no P250 Armorer Classes offered.

The E2 Slide on the Classic Sig Pistol's requires a modified 3mm Punch where 1/2 of the face has been ground-down flat. Due to health issues, the guy who made them (K and C Barrels) is no longer doing so.

Can you ask if Sig has plans to manufacture E2 Slide Tools?

I no longer have the tools to make E2 slide tools, but I did locate a video on YouTube that seems to cover the topic rather well.

If anyone is game to try making some ~ I would be happy to contribute a few punches. I no longer have a Sig with an E2 slide for post-modification testing.



.




My Photobucket albums:

1978 Browning BDA .45cal (aka Sig P220 with European Magazine Release):
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...Cal%20aka%20SigP220/

1986 SigSauer P226 with Mud Rails and Full NP3:
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...bar%20NP3%20Coating/

Winchester 1897 WW1 Trenchgun:
http://s671.photobucket.com/al...h%20Gun%2012%20Gage/
 
Posts: 2496 | Location: San Diego, CA  | Registered: July 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Things I take to armorer classes now:
Just as The Hitchhiker’s Guide recommends, a towel (for putting the parts on to keep them from running away).
A flashlight for helping to avoid panic when a small part runs off the bench and must be located on the floor.
A notebook for keeping notes that I don’t want to scribble in the supplied guide and then transcribe into a readable form later.

One of the best bits of advice I received from Chris Orndorff before I attended my first SIG class, and that was to refer to a schematic and learn the names of all the parts in advance. That made it much easier to follow the instructor’s discussion. SIG uses different names for some parts than other manufacturers, for example locking insert rather than locking block, magazine catch rather than magazine release, and slide catch lever rather than slide stop are ones that come to mind. Of course, sometimes the instructors are lazy and don’t use the proper names either, but it still helps to know what they’re supposed to be.

Although I’m not one who believes I’d die of desiccation if I don’t “hydrate” every 13.5 minutes, I usually have a small bottle of water in case I do get thirsty and don’t care for what might be available during breaks.
And it’s obviously a matter of personal preference, but I eat a large breakfast and stay at the classroom through the lunch period with perhaps just a snack bar to tide me over. That avoids the hassle of trying to run out and find something in the time allotted, plus I review my notes of the morning session and practice the disassembly/assembly procedures.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When I took the class decades ago, my eyesight and ability to manipulate small parts were much better. Depending on your age, bringing tweezers might benefit you.

Have fun!


____________________________________________________________________________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't!
Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin
 
Posts: 1919 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tenacious
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Thanks for all the good suggestions. Hopefully my 64 year old ass eyes, fingers and brain will allow me to successfully complete the course.Looking forward to it. I am just an old Sig enthusiast with classic Sigs I would like to be able to service myself.I've never done much past a basic field strip and maintenance on my Classic Sigs.Hope I'm not getting in over my head!Will they cover the DAK and Short Reset trigger systems?
 
Posts: 485 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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The instructor makes a big difference in how much information you can get beyond the basics of disassembly and assembly. Some know a lot; others are pretty clueless and may even provide bogus information. Listen, but keep an open mind. For the basics, though, I doubt you’ll have any problems with the class. At age 72 I went through the P320 class for the second time, and they are a little trickier in some ways than the Classics. The Classic line guns are really easy to work on once the basics are explained.

Another thing to make sure you have if necessary is a pair of glasses for close work. I have always had a pair of cheap supermarket +3 readers with me. Glasses that are satisfactory for reading may not be enough when trying to line some things up.

One of the times I attended the Classic class we were given DAKs to work with, but as they have been pretty much discontinued, I doubt that will be true of yours. But the DAK and the short trigger reset mechanisms are fundamentally the same as the original DA/SA system. The SRT just uses different parts and the DAK uses different parts and eliminates a few. The only significant difference I’ve found in working with DAK pistols is that unlike with the DA/SA mechanism, it’s all but impossible to remove and install the trigger bar and trigger without removing the sear assembly first. It can be done if everything is manipulated just right, but I never mastered the trick and found it wasn’t worth the time and effort to try.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Take with you probably not. I second the suggestion to get a good idea in your head of the parts schematic for a p series pistol. I'm not sure if they do it anymore but when I went everybody tossed all their parts in a box and then the instructor tossed a few parts and that was the final test. When I went we dissembled and reassembled a few of the odd variants but didn't have to mind them in the test. I enjoyed the class immensely. Was one of the first events that taught me to not fear disassembly of any gun.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7998 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
St. Vitus
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When I took my class 4 yrs. ago the instructor had us work on both DAK and DA/SA platforms. Also you might want to consider picking up a pair of safety reader glasses in your script. I found a pair of 1.50 at the local hardware store for about 7 dollars and well worth it.
 
Posts: 4681 | Location: basement | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
Was one of the first events that taught me to not fear disassembly of any gun.


A very perceptive point that never before occurred to me.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Both of the SIG armorer courses I took were somewhat underwealming... compared with the Glock armorer classes the SIG ones are at best poor quality. (Of course both times Glock threw in a very good BBQ lunch.. Big Grin )

I had two different instructors for the courses and neither one was particularly good... plus the class room set up was less that good for instruction...

The first class room had such poor lighting that students were using flash lights to be able to see into the pistols we were working on...

The second instructor was just plain obnoxious... talking about hanging up on students that would call for help... very unprofessional...

My suggestion is at a minimum take a light... in fact take several lights. Get to the class room early enough to claim a good seat, front is better because there you can sometimes see what the instructor is pointing to during demonstrations...

Water is a good idea too...

I'm unlikely to ever take a SIG course again...

FWIW

Chuck


Hoist on High the Bonny Blue Flag that Bears the Single Star!!!

Certified SIG Armorer
Certified Glock Armorer
 
Posts: 1291 | Location: Florida, CSA | Registered: September 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Although I understand the frustration, one, or even two instructors don’t make a course.
I have attended several SIG armorer courses and I’ve had instructors who were phenomenal and at least one who was really poor (both times). The second time I wrote to the SIG academy with specifics of why I didn’t like him. I got a personal reply back expressing appreciation for my report, and an offer to attend my next course for free (which I never took advantage of because I didn’t believe it was warranted).

I also attended a Glock armorer course whose instructor was pretty good, but not fantastic, and two Colt rifle courses. One Colt course instructor was exceptional; one was the worst I’ve ever had—far worse than the SIG instructor I didn’t care for.

But the advice to get a seat early and close to the front is a good tip. Especially for those of us who don’t hear so well any more.

And although it probably isn’t necessary for a mature individual, I can’t stress too strongly my advice to focus on the information provided, and not how it’s presented. It’s only two days, and as I remarked earlier, once you understand the subject of the class, it’s really pretty easy.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In the end the instructor in this course doesn't matter a whole lot. What you get is a gun or guns to play with in the context of making mistakes and learning (and its not yours). Be sure to hit those pins with force!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 7998 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tenacious
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I completed the Classic Pistol Sig Armorers Course 10/23/2019. I was some what humbled by my ability to disassemble and reassemble a classic Sig pistol.Some of the guys there amazed me by doing so in mere minutes! I was was the slow old guy everyone was waiting on every time.I will be the one who the instructor talks about at the next class! Vances Outdoor in Obetz Oh. is a beautiful facility, and store, highly suggest you stop in if in the area.
 
Posts: 485 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Congratulations.
Learning how to work on one’s firearms even at the armorer level is one of the best things a gun owner can do for himself. We old guys may be slow, but we’re far faster than the young guys who don’t know how.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tenacious
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sigfreund, I really struggled with reassembly of the sear assy, small parts and arthritic thumbs and fingers do not like each other. Any tricks from a seasoned old armorer or just more practice?
 
Posts: 485 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Believe me, I understand about arthritic thumbs and fingers, and I don’t know that I have any really good tricks to help.

A few things I do, just in case you haven’t discovered them yourself.

When putting the sear assembly together, I use the pistol block here to stand the frame upright after inserting the sear pivot pin in part way. A dedicated support would probably work better, and best would be a vise fixture to hold it firmly, but I’ve always managed with just the bench block.

Another thing I did long ago was to make my own set of armorer tools rather than using the SIG tool. I prefer a smaller magnetic handle that I also got from Brownells to use these tips with. Left, right, top, bottom: mag catch tool; mainspring seat manipulation tool; short extractor tool.



I polish the mag catch tool and put a piece of electrical tape on the frame to avoiding scratching the finish. (Sorry for the huge picture; I can't seem to get it to resize.)

When installing the mainspring I get the hammer strut, mainspring, and mainspring seat all into position and then push up on the seat to snap it into place; I don’t use the tool because I find it has a tendency to rotate and slip out of place. Using my thumb (with a glove if necessary) gives me better control over the process.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tenacious
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I agree that finding a way to firmly hold either the frame or slide while working on it would be a big help.Also a good adjustable light source for old ass eyes is a must. Thanks for your help and info.
 
Posts: 485 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: December 31, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Bruce Gray adage about getting some damn grease can apply to more than just the rails. I use it to lube the internal parts. The grease helps to hold small parts in place when trying to line them up.


____________________________________________________________________________________
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't!
Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin
 
Posts: 1919 | Location: Central Va. | Registered: September 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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If you have any difficulty seeing detail at close range, bring a pair of reading glasses.




"Live every day as if it's going to be your last, and one day, you'll be right.”
Malachy McCourt
 
Posts: 11040 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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