SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Armorer    225 frame damage

Moderators: Chris Orndorff
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
225 frame damage Login/Join 
Member
posted
Our club has a P225 frame that has an 85mm long split/seperation starting 22.5mm in from the front end of the right rail, bottom edge. Has anyone else experienced similar problems with any of the 22x series?
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That's just the
Flomax talking
Picture of GaryBF
posted Hide Post
I don't recall any such problem. Can you elaborate on the circumstances: Is this a range gun? Estimated rounds fired? Diet of +P,+P+ ammunition?
 
Posts: 10833 | Location: St. Louis, Missouri | Registered: February 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of Chris Orndorff
posted Hide Post
Does the "split" (sounds like a crack) run parallel with the top of the locking insert, almost even with the top of the insert?


__________________


"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper


Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
 
Posts: 8235 | Location: UT | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Unfortunately I don´t have the earlier history (former LE usage) but now has been only occasionally used as a club weapon. The crack runs along the bottom edge of the right hand rail (above, not below the rail groove) starting 22mm from the front end and running 85 mm, parallel to and easily visible and even with the top edge of the locking insert. No appreciable wear on any of the parts (including the frame-except for the crack, of course), even the locking insert-only a little deformation at the barrel/locking insert contact point and some peening on the barrel at the barrel/slide contact point during recoil over the chamber on the barrel .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snakeman,
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of Chris Orndorff
posted Hide Post
Frame is cracked. Not uncommon with older (pre-'91) P226's. Not repairable (by anyone I know of anyway, and that includes SIG and Bruce Gray).


__________________


"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper


Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
 
Posts: 8235 | Location: UT | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Yup, I know, non repairable, I know. Do you or anyone else on the forum know why the pre-`91s had a predisposition to frame rail cracking? Ours is "JE" stamped on the slide, making it an `84 so it fits well in the time frame for such an occurence.
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of Chris Orndorff
posted Hide Post
SIG changed the frame rails I suppose to make them more robust sometime after SN U141xxx (in the 226 series). I don't know specifically what they changed to improve longevity. I know that regularly replacing the recoil spring didn't help prevent cracking in those earlier 226's.


__________________


"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper


Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
 
Posts: 8235 | Location: UT | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
This is a 225 with SN M535xxx, not a 226 but I imagine that the same problem/solution would apply, right? Would really like to know what (and when/SN for the 225´s) was done to improve the frame reliability as we have a bunch of 226´s and 225´s owned by our club that are regularly used by club members for training and competition.
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by snakeman:
Would really like to know what (and when/SN for the 225´s) was done to improve the frame reliability ....


It has been reported by one person who was very knowledgeable about SIG pistols that it’s important to regularly replace the roll pins that hold the separate breechblocks in guns with formed and welded carbon steel slides. SIG’s recommended service interval was for the pins to be replaced with new every 5000 rounds.

The reason is that if the breechblock loosens even slightly, the slide flexes more under recoil and that places additional stress on the frame rails, and can result in early frame cracking. Some guns had their frames beefed up and the others are obviously more susceptible to cracking, but I would follow the maintenance regimen for all pistols with the old type slide design to help ensure longest service life.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 37259 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Moderator
Picture of Chris Orndorff
posted Hide Post
Regularly replacing the roll pins (WAY more often than 5k rounds) didn't help either Wink.

My PD got ten 226's back in the day. One cracked. SIG told us that they were seeing one in 450 pistols develop the crack. Then eight more cracked. Only one of those first 10 pistols survived. Roll pins and recoil springs had been replaced every year. SIG upgraded the frame...we bought 80 more pistol...zero issues with any.

This is the first 225 that I've personally heard of cracking.


__________________


"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper


Now an FFL licensee, working on SIGs and other assorted firearms. My email is in my profile.
 
Posts: 8235 | Location: UT | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The slide is of the old design with pinned in place breech block (part #61 on my exploded view diagram) in the slide and shows some evidence of pin removal (and hopefully replacement) as there are small marks around the pin hole on the slide. Getting a new frame may be a bit of a hassle (SN and all that) but as everything else is in good working order maybe it´s worth doing. Would really like to know what SIG did to strengthen the frames.
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Unflappable Enginerd
Picture of stoic-one
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by snakeman:
The slide is of the old design with pinned in place breech block (part #61 on my exploded view diagram) in the slide and shows some evidence of pin removal (and hopefully replacement) as there are small marks around the pin hole on the slide.
ALL P225's, sans the recently released new version (A1), have carbon steel stamped slides with the removable breach block. It's not unique to the P225, all p-series SIG's produced back then were of this design. I would hope the pins had been replaced sometime over the life of an 1984 production pistol...

quote:
Originally posted by snakeman:
Getting a new frame may be a bit of a hassle (SN and all that) but as everything else is in good working order maybe it´s worth doing.
That's a huge understatement and NOT serial number related as you'll have to find one on the open market, SIG Germany decommissioned the stamping equipment over a decade ago, and SIG USA will almost certainly provide zero help in the matter(P225's were never produced in the US, MAYBE assembled, but never produced). While you may be able to find one on an auction site, it'll more than likely be used and of unknown provenance. Good luck though.


__________________________________

NRA Benefactor
I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident.
http://www.aufamily.com/forums/
 
Posts: 3304 | Location: Headland, AL | Registered: April 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Have to do all parts searching here in Europe, so hopefully, hopefully something can turn up somewhere. Still would like to know what frame improvements were made to cure the rail cracking problem. Thanks for the well wishes.
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: February 05, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of JAFO
posted Hide Post
Worst case scenario is that you now have a parts gun for the other 225's you have.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Overheard at an actual match:
"Tapers! Come on, guys, we need tapers!"
"No, my name's Gonzales."
 
Posts: 4899 | Location: S.A., TX | Registered: July 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  SIG Armorer    225 frame damage

© SIGforum 2017