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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by leam:
To me the real issue is credibility. If the armorer felt there was an issue, having a conversation with Bruce would help resolve things. Even better if the armorer and Bruce could talk.

No matter what I think, the issue is in the mind of the person carrying. Have they gotten things figured out.


That's a pretty astute thought; however, communication was an issue- as I mentioned in my original post.


NRA RSO/Instructor - Multi
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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
A Grateful American
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quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
quote:
Originally posted by cyberiad:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?


He said that the sear dragged while being released from the hammer because the overtravel stop was set too short. I am not a gunsmith, but when one who is responsible for the lifesaving equipment of high risk folks makes a recommendation, I pay attention.


How long ago did this discussion/inspection with your FBI gunsmith friend occur?


Relevance?


Most relevant, else I would d not have inquired.

The relating of your "communication" is not really very clear.

Perhaps the issue with failed communication is with you given the vague and ambiguous relating of same.




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 36380 | Location: My Happy Little Tire Swing | Registered: December 20, 2008Report This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
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quote:
Originally posted by rscalzo:
quote:
Most of the police armorers I know have zero experience


The Armorers Course does not make you a gunsmith. They never claimed it would. They can inspect and replace parts. that's it.


Couple that with the fact that the Feeb hasn't seen a P Series pistol in more than a dozen years. Yeah. Just can't get real worked up over it myself.


_______________________________________________________________________
www.opspectraining.com

"Make it a shooting, and not a gunfight" LSP552 02/19/2011



 
Posts: 30715 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Report This Post
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I have the P-PAK that I installed myself. I think it's a better way to modify the action then honing the stock parts including the sear. I probably have 5K with no problems through it.


Training as often as possible!
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Posts: 1577 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: May 31, 2010Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by mrtuna:
I have the P-PAK that I installed myself. I think it's a better way to modify the action then honing the stock parts including the sear. I probably have 5K with no problems through it.


Ah, choices Smile, At $325 or so, the P-PAK is a pricey but doubtless good quality way to go, I don't care for MIM parts (but don't want to start that argument here).

That money could more that pay for a quality action job at TheSigArmorer (no affiliation and have not had work done there, though I've seen Burke's work).

I have the fittings, fixtures, and machine shop to do my own "hobby gunsmithing". I use stock parts (some of them MIM) and make some of the parts as well. That's also a good way to go, but it takes a big investment in tooling to do it right. Here's one example, a hammer pivot "cam" on a P229 DA/SA that both helps smooth things (well, a tiny bit) and eliminates DA pretravel.



 
Posts: 1171 | Location: Nevada, United States | Registered: April 13, 2010Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leam:
To me the real issue is credibility. If the armorer felt there was an issue, having a conversation with Bruce would help resolve things. Even better if the armorer and Bruce could talk.

No matter what I think, the issue is in the mind of the person carrying. Have they gotten things figured out.


BTW- this is a full time, professional Gunsmith for Bu weapons. Not a LEO who is an Armorer with a parts kit.


NRA RSO/Instructor - Multi
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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
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I would trust Bruce Grays work without question over a gov't so called gunsmith

Grayguns is the top Sig smith in the industry


Cummings Custom Refinishing offers Quality Craftsmanship at affordable prices. Fully Lic FFL's for over 29 years
OFTEN IMITATED BUT NEVER DUPLICATED
423-639-8924
www.ccrrefinishing.com

 
Posts: 4863 | Location: Eastern Tn | Registered: March 29, 2004Report This Post
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OP, I've had several pistols optimized by Mr. Gray and his team. The improvements have been outstanding in each and every case. They work with you to identify your objective and have never disappointed.

I generally prefer a competition set up with a very defined trigger break, short reset and shortened uptake.

In the case of both my P226 and P2009 their character has dramatically and favorably improved. My confidence and performance with the pistols was and is noteworthy and the improvements have stayed true for many years now.

Had you asked about the P7 or the 1911....the improvements were similarly outstanding.

I'm currently saving my shekels to send in my P229.

Once upon a time i foolishly sent a pistol for some very expensive work by another gunsmith that had a nice write up in one of the popular magazines. It was a horrible experience. The pistol finally was returned to me in a miserable state. Our local gunsmith wouldn't touch it claiming it was beyond repair. Mr. Gray was kind enough to restore and improve upon that pistol. There is no one else i would ever send my pistols to.

We depend upon them, we trust them and they have never failed.

I hope this helps.

And by the way, CCR is amazing as well.
 
Posts: 5854 | Location: southern california | Registered: April 27, 2003Report This Post
Behold my
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Hi! I'm a bit late back to this conversation. I read that another gunsmith thought there was an issue with our work? It should be noted that Grayguns has two outstanding full-time Customer Service people to address such concerns and facilitate the hard implementation of out lifetime guarantee. Their job is to assess and act upon every message and call we recieve. Back when I ran the company, things got missed, and that was my fault. Other than due to a busy signal, this no longer happens. We back everything we do and sell for life. Thanks for letting me reinforce that point.

The P-PAK has completed revisions, is produced, and being installed in-house to clear our wait queue before going up as drop-in kits for a very favourable price.




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9331 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Report This Post
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Are the P-pak kits available yet?? I've been waiting almost two years and havn't heard a thing. My direct inquiries to Grayguns have never been answered. Has anybody seen one? Are they vaporware? Are they worth the wait? Inquiring minds want to know.

Joe
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: February 17, 2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jodykid:
Are the P-pak kits available yet?? I've been waiting almost two years and havn't heard a thing. My direct inquiries to Grayguns have never been answered. Has anybody seen one? Are they vaporware? Are they worth the wait? Inquiring minds want to know.

Joe


In his second paragraph in the post before yours, Bruce just answered your question.
 
Posts: 1475 | Registered: September 13, 2006Report This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
Picture of Grayguns
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jodykid:
Are the P-pak kits available yet?? I've been waiting almost two years and havn't heard a thing. My direct inquiries to Grayguns have never been answered. Has anybody seen one? Are they vaporware? Are they worth the wait? Inquiring minds want to know.

Joe


Joe, please email me so I can find your previous messages.

The best way to be sure to receive our updates is to sign up for our newsletter on grayguns.com

Yes, the P-PAKis worth the wait. Mostly because our customers get perfect machined tool-steel parts, with advanced features, guaranteed for life, that meet factory safety values, at less than the cost of our previous action work.

Our stuff is proven safe and reliable.

Did that FBI armourer ever try to contact us? I don't even know what "sear dragging" is, but I want to know if a real problem exists. Straight up, none of this "some one who knows told me but I can't tell you who it is" bull.

Please have him or her contact me directly.

Thank you.

-Bruce




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9331 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
I had a P226 get PPAK'd. Eventually I had a FBI gunsmith friend look at it, and his reaction was that I needed to NOT carry the gun- at all- until I could have the gun returned to a safely operable condition. He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer. So I no longer have any GG parts in my gun.




quote:
Originally posted by Grayguns:
Did that FBI armourer ever try to contact us? I don't even know what "sear dragging" is, but I want to know if a real problem exists. Straight up, none of this "some one who knows told me but I can't tell you who it is" bull.

Please have him or her contact me directly.

Thank you.

-Bruce


This is a fair request.

The administration of of this board will not tolerate the slandering-based-upon-hearsay of a member vendor, who freely, generously, and accurately, contributes their experience and knowledge to this forum.

The veracity of this "sear dragging" critique should be held in question until the actual source can come forth and explain the phenomenon.
 
Posts: 17121 | Registered: August 12, 2000Report This Post
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Picture of steve495
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jodykid:
Are the P-pak kits available yet?? I've been waiting almost two years and havn't heard a thing. My direct inquiries to Grayguns have never been answered. Has anybody seen one? Are they vaporware? Are they worth the wait? Inquiring minds want to know.

Joe


Joe,
We track all of the emails that come in and may have missed something. There is no email address in your profile. If you send me an email (in my profile) I will take a look for your previous email(s).

As Bruce mentioned, there are staff members working to answer emails all throughout the day. If you do not want to email me directly (Bruce is quite busy) please send an email through the Grayguns Contact Us form located here...
https://grayguns.com/contact-us/


Steve


Small Business Website Design & Maintenance - http://spidercreations.net | OpSpec Training - http://opspectraining.com | Grayguns - http://grayguns.com | Blogging at http://radioviceonline.com

Evil exists. You can not negotiate with, bribe or placate evil. You're not going to be able to have it sit down with Dr. Phil for an anger management session either.
 
Posts: 4213 | Location: Windsor Locks, Conn. | Registered: July 18, 2006Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:

The veracity of this "sear dragging" critique should be held in question until the actual source can come forth and explain the phenomenon.


This condition is real and very easy to create. Adjust the over travel screw so you just get the hammer to release with absolutely no over travel. Now pull the trigger back and thumb the hammer back and ride it down slowly. You will feel the hammer just touch the sear as it goes down.
So when shooting in S/A this lack sear travel allows surfaces of the hammer and sear to interact even if there is enough movement to allow the hammer to drop. The simple solution is to dial in a little more over travel.
 
Posts: 153 | Location: Michigan | Registered: April 21, 2015Report This Post
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Has anyone attempted to reach out to us yet?

info@grayguns.com

bruce@grayguns.com

541.468.3840

In the eventual absence of any verifiable facts of a real problem that isn't solvable by turning a 5/64" hex key, or direct contact with anyone involved, perhaps the OP or admins would be willing to delete this thread?

-Bruce




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9331 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Report This Post
Behold my
Radiance!
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mbacker_99:
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:

The veracity of this "sear dragging" critique should be held in question until the actual source can come forth and explain the phenomenon.


This condition is real and very easy to create. Adjust the over travel screw so you just get the hammer to release with absolutely no over travel. Now pull the trigger back and thumb the hammer back and ride it down slowly. You will feel the hammer just touch the sear as it goes down.
So when shooting in S/A this lack sear travel allows surfaces of the hammer and sear to interact even if there is enough movement to allow the hammer to drop. The simple solution is to dial in a little more over travel.


We call this "not properly adjusted", and we are incredulous that any ostensibly knowledgeable person could possibly fail to understand this. This guy must mean something else?

I hope someone will contact us?

-Bruce




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9331 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LDD:
This is a fair request.

The administration of of this board will not tolerate the slandering-based-upon-hearsay of a member vendor, who freely, generously, and accurately, contributes their experience and knowledge to this forum.

The veracity of this "sear dragging" critique should be held in question until the actual source can come forth and explain the phenomenon.


LDD,

As a junior member of the forum and having been able to only afford a couple SIGs in my life, I still feel it imperative to share my perception of Bruce Gray and his business.

During the years I have interacted with Bruce Gray he has made training aids freely available, answered questions in public and private, and done so in a professional and gentlemanly manner.

I feel my perspective is important because I am not anyone special. I'm not in the industry, I'm not an up and coming shooter, I don't have a lot of money to buy attention. I'm just some guy who asked questions and got good answers from a good man.

I'm sure Bruce isn't perfect but he's about as close as it gets in the gun industry.

If there are facts in question the person who raised the issue needs to get their expert with Bruce directly. If Bruce is wrong he'll admit it publicly. Otherwise, my guess is a bunch of us are tired of seeing gossip in our inbox.
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: September 17, 2006Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mbacker_99:
This condition is real and very easy to create. Adjust the over travel screw so you just get the hammer to release with absolutely no over travel. Now pull the trigger back and thumb the hammer back and ride it down slowly. You will feel the hammer just touch the sear as it goes down.
So when shooting in S/A this lack sear travel allows surfaces of the hammer and sear to interact even if there is enough movement to allow the hammer to drop. The simple solution is to dial in a little more over travel.


This reminds me of the damned Toyota company. Can you believe my 4Runner needs an alignment after only 150,000 miles? Piece of junk! Roll Eyes


------------------------------
"They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause."
- Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith)
 
Posts: 926 | Location: Southwest Ohio | Registered: October 07, 2011Report This Post
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Leam, LDD, friends. Thank you. If there is a problem, it's imperative that we be allowed the opportunity to solve it. We're human and make mistakes. So are our customers, to whom we give every benefit of the doubt. Hearing nothing here tells me this person's story is not credible. Whether a real problem existed or not, we'll probably never know now.

Very disappointed.

-B




Designer and custom pistolsmith at Grayguns Inc. Privileged to be R&D consultant to the world's greatest maker of fine firearms. Now: Get some Lucas Extreme Duty Grease from Top Gun Supply and SIG Pro Shop, dammit! And remember: MOAC is coming again in 2017!

Visit us at http://opspectraining.com/product-cat/videos/ to order yours, and Thank You for making GGI the leader in custom SIG and HK pistols.

Bruce Gray, President
Grayguns Inc.
Grayguns.com / 541-468-3840
 
Posts: 9331 | Location: GGI's Secret Volcano Base near Spray, and Bruce's R&D custom shop in Reedsport, Oregon | Registered: October 06, 2003Report This Post
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