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It's odd how the wait to get work done there is extremely long, so LOTS of people are getting work done, yet you rarely hear people on the forums talking about the results, comparing the before/after.

Has anyone here with a 220/226/229 had their P-PAK installed by them? If so, how would you describe the results?
 
Posts: 151 | Location: New Orleans  | Registered: August 29, 2016Report This Post
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I'm waiting patiently for the P-PAK II to be back in stock. Wait times can be lengthy. From what I've read here, the triggers are cleaned up for a remarkably smoother take up/squeeze and lightened. Most of my experiences with Graysguns has been acquiring their SIG parts in the classifieds. So far I've been satisfied with the results.

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Posts: 595 | Location: CA | Registered: January 23, 2011Report This Post
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I see. I have two M11 A-1's, both purchased in '16, and both of them had very heavy triggers, and both were gritty/rough. I sent both off to Sig for the AEP, and the results were very positive. My 226 has about 2K rounds through it, and has smoothed out quite nicely.

Recently, I had bought a NIB 'old-stock' 220, with the SS frame, black slide, and the trigger on that thing was GREAT right out of the box! As good or better (weight & smoothness) than my 226.
Three weeks ago, I bought one of the new Talo 226 Classic Carry's, and the trigger on that one is pretty much identical to the 220. My intention is for the new 226-CC to be my carry gun, once I run 500-rounds of HST through it, and am sure that it's reliable. The day I bought the gun, I cleaned it up and hit the range, running 150-rounds of HST through it, without issue, and I was a little surprised because I seemed to shoot it better than my older 226, and actually shot some of my best groups ever.

That being said, I've been in line at Grayguns since last July, for the P-PAK. Feeling how nice the trigger is on this new 226, I'm beginning to question whether I should spend the money on the GG kit. I wish I could shoot a gun that has that kit, just to compare it to a stock gun. I'm sure this kind of thing is somewhat subjective, but I'm just trying to make a decision. My goal was simply to have the best trigger possible for my carry gun; I'm just not sure how much better the GG trigger kit will be...
 
Posts: 151 | Location: New Orleans  | Registered: August 29, 2016Report This Post
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If you like the trigger pull and are shooting the gun well, why modify it at all?

I have a 226 that had their competition action job. It smoothed and lightened the DA, lightened the SA a bit and made it a little cleaner, and shortened the reset a lot over stock (but comparable to an SRT reset). That was for a competition action.

A carry action, for which they recommend using factory springs with their P-PAK, would not necessarily be lighter. It may be smoother with the new parts, which will make the DA feel lighter. And overtravel can be reduced with the included P-SAIT, but that can be purchased by itself.

Honestly, for a carry gun that you feel already has a great trigger, I wouldn't do anything except maybe add a SRT kit. The P-SAIT can be purchased by itself, if you like the profile better than the stock trigger or you're really bothered by the trigger stopping on the frame.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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Posts: 4882 | Location: S.A., TX | Registered: July 20, 2006Report This Post
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I had a LE trade in P226 that had a gritty trigger with a long reset and an unknown round count. I sent it to Gray Guns for the Carry Reduced Reset Action Package (CRRAP).
I felt better about the idea of carrying it after having an expert (and artist) go completely through the gun, slick everything up, and put it back together correctly.

The trigger is much, much better and I rest easy knowing that it will work.

With the quality of their drop in parts, I wouldn't hesitate to install them in a brand new gun and carry it.


Bruce



Hanlon's Razor /prov./ A corollary of Finagle's Law, similar to Occam's Razor, that reads "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

"It is better to be considered a house cat and sit on the lap of pretty girls than to be feared as a tiger and hunted by men."- T. Takamatsu
 
Posts: 2415 | Location: NV | Registered: October 06, 2011Report This Post
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Well, I decided against the trigger kit. With S&H both ways, and parts/labor, I'd have been looking at $485.

I decided I'd spend my money on ammo, so I bought 1K of 124gr Lawman, and 1K of 124gr HST, and will get busy shooting it, and making sure it's reliable.
 
Posts: 151 | Location: New Orleans  | Registered: August 29, 2016Report This Post
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I've been thinking about this for a bit; I'd love to have my P320 tuned well. However, I have a lot of other skills and tasks to work on before I could fully take advantage of the work Bruce and the team would do.

Next up on my list is Steve Anderson's Dry Fire drills and some mild exercise daily to strengthen my lower back. Since I have the book and not using weights it costs me nothing but time. Maybe by the end of the year I'll be in a position to fully utilize a tuned gun and will get myself a Gray Guns Christmas present. Smile

I agree, $485 is a lot of money just for a tune-up. However, when it's time and the un-tuned gun prevents you from reaching your next goal, $485 isn't as much as it used to be.
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: September 17, 2006Report This Post
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The guns seem very variable.
I once bought a PD tradein P220. Appearance was OK but the trigger was rough and tough.
I had (another shop) work it over and was well pleased, it came back some lighter and a lot smoother.

Then I got to shoot a friend's P220, stock as bought at a PX Rod & Gun in Germany. It was very nice. Mine was somewhat better, but if I had gotten one like his, I would not have considered gunsmithing needed.
 
Posts: 2601 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Report This Post
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I had a P226 get PPAK'd. Eventually I had a FBI gunsmith friend look at it, and his reaction was that I needed to NOT carry the gun- at all- until I could have the gun returned to a safely operable condition. He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer. So I no longer have any GG parts in my gun.

With all due respect to Mr. Gray's contributions and accomplishments in the field, the work could only have been done by an unsupervised apprentice. Moreover, a wait is a desireable sign for a gunsmith; however, good customer service should be coupled with that. The communication between me and the shop was always initiated by me. Further, their estimated time to get to a gun kept getting pushed out every time I called them. I waited 11 months on a ticket with Cylinder & Slide for a revolver, and when they said my turn was up, my gun was gone less than two weeks for significant work.


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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
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So, an FBI armorer mentioned something and he has 40 more years of experience than Bruce and the crew? While I support my LEO community I'm not seeing the basis of authority at all. Describe the exact reason and why it's an issue. Heck, if it is unsafe ask Bruce himself, he'll probably make it right if there's an issue.
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: September 17, 2006Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?
 
Posts: 3757 | Location: NC | Registered: December 20, 2004Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by titus66:
Well, I decided against the trigger kit. With S&H both ways, and parts/labor, I'd have been looking at $485.

I decided I'd spend my money on ammo, so I bought 1K of 124gr Lawman, and 1K of 124gr HST, and will get busy shooting it, and making sure it's reliable.


After 2000 of quality ammunition, the action will self slick by metal on metal friction. I have the highest respect for Bruce and his staff of pistol artisans. But having the internals modified from factory has never been a priority of mine for a carry pistol. I can see where it would have it's advantages in a competition pistol.


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Posts: 7737 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer. | Registered: January 09, 2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cyberiad:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?


Yes, yes, and yes. He is an excellent gunsmith but does not have X ray vision.


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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cyberiad:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?


He said that the sear dragged while being released from the hammer because the overtravel stop was set too short. I am not a gunsmith, but when one who is responsible for the lifesaving equipment of high risk folks makes a recommendation, I pay attention.


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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
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Most of the police armorers I know have zero experience. They were lucky enough to be picked by the chief to go to armorers school, instead of being out on the street that week

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Posts: 7429 | Location: C-bus, Ohio | Registered: December 17, 2004Report This Post
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To me the real issue is credibility. If the armorer felt there was an issue, having a conversation with Bruce would help resolve things. Even better if the armorer and Bruce could talk.

No matter what I think, the issue is in the mind of the person carrying. Have they gotten things figured out.
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: September 17, 2006Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Watson:
The guns seem very variable.
I once bought a PD tradein P220. Appearance was OK but the trigger was rough and tough.
I had (another shop) work it over and was well pleased, it came back some lighter and a lot smoother.

Then I got to shoot a friend's P220, stock as bought at a PX Rod & Gun in Germany. It was very nice. Mine was somewhat better, but if I had gotten one like his, I would not have considered gunsmithing needed.

ALL mass produced guns are highly variable.

In the 1970's I went through my S&W revolver phase. Also started amateur gunsmithing, due to variable quality of S&W during the Bangor Punta era. Got tired of sending back to an S&W warranty station. Turnaround back then was MONTHS...not weeks. Sold my soul to Brownell's. Over that period I bought and sold about 30-35 revolvers. Did action tuning on nearly all of them.

When custom tuning revolvers you learn EVERY revolver is different. The amount of work required depends on the individual specimen. I had guns that required just a few hours and others that required a week. They were all different.

Yeah, you say, but those were revolvers. Yeah, but it's the same thing with pistols. I always buy from my LGS because I can actually check the action characteristics of the pistol I want to buy. Example: Wanted to buy a new Glock Gen4 G34. Requested they drag out all G34's in the shop, including those out back. Looked at four G34's and each was slightly different. Except for the one I bought, which was DRAMATICALLY different from the other three. Same when I went to buy my Gen4 G19. I have not tuned either action, since it was not necessary for defensive use.

Finally, a normal break-in period will improve most actions. I also tune my SIgs and 1911's. I NEVER do any tuneup until the gun is broken in. I also don't tuneup guns that don't really need it. All of the above was true in the 1970's and is still true in the 2010's.


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Posts: 3925 | Location: Northeast | Registered: June 29, 2006Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
quote:
Originally posted by cyberiad:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?


He said that the sear dragged while being released from the hammer because the overtravel stop was set too short. I am not a gunsmith, but when one who is responsible for the lifesaving equipment of high risk folks makes a recommendation, I pay attention.


How long ago did this discussion/inspection with your FBI gunsmith friend occur?




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" I could explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
Posts: 36071 | Location: My Happy Little Tire Swing | Registered: December 20, 2008Report This Post
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quote:
Most of the police armorers I know have zero experience


The Armorers Course does not make you a gunsmith. They never claimed it would. They can inspect and replace parts. that's it.


Richard Scalzo
Epping, NH

http://www.bigeastakitarescue.net
 
Posts: 4423 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
quote:
Originally posted by cyberiad:
quote:
Originally posted by derek141:
He mentioned something about the sear drag while being released from the hammer.


This doesn't make sense. Did he take it apart and inspect it? What did he find? Did he shoot it?


He said that the sear dragged while being released from the hammer because the overtravel stop was set too short. I am not a gunsmith, but when one who is responsible for the lifesaving equipment of high risk folks makes a recommendation, I pay attention.


How long ago did this discussion/inspection with your FBI gunsmith friend occur?


Relevance?


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Posts: 34 | Registered: April 06, 2016Report This Post
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