Well, I think CA gun owners have always had support from those in other states... However, I don't think anyone thinks that our gun rights in other states 'hinges' upon CA... because if this country followed, CA, it would be completely in the shitter...

Anyway...

"Have fun Storming the Castle!"

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Well, I think CA gun owners have always had support from those in other states... However, I don't think anyone thinks that our gun rights in other states 'hinges' upon CA... because if this country followed, CA, it would be completely in the shitter...

Anyway...

"Have fun Storming the Castle!"

CA is definitely, "Mostly dead."
What other states should really do is, go on the offensive. Go on the offensive now before the cancer spreads. Hey, I am not gonna be here forever

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RobG5589,

In case you haven't checked, we ARE on the offensive in other states... look around, it will become readily apparent...

So much for the "UNITED" States of America. You guys who say "Fuck Calif." are pathetic! I suppose you would say the same thing about your brother or another one of your family members if they had a problem or could benifit from just a small amount of your assistance.

Just keep in mind that it is The Constitution of The United States and not The Constitution of The United States Except California. The OP is right, the 2nd ammendment applies to us all and we should be on our toes and remain vigilant. If the powers that be can find a way to bypass it, you can bet we will all suffer for it. Let's just all hope that SCOTUS will come to the decision to incorporate.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bellzy,

I'm not proposing cutting CA off, however there is something to be said for 'helping yourself'.

I'm also trying to impress upon CA residents that just because that state is AFU doesn't mean that the rest will follow...

Support? You have it. Now quit bitching and do something about it. Or not, it's your choice. Don't expect others to fight a battle for you...
We have been vigilant in the other states... not sure what CA has been doing in the meantime...

Not to mention that states like CA, and cities such as DC and Chicago give us Pro-gun rights people ample ammunition to point out 'what doesn't work'.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Not to mention that states like CA, and cities such as DC and Chicago give us Pro-gun rights people ample ammunition to point out 'what doesn't work'.

Since when do politicians care about what works? You act like only California has stupid gun laws. Try buy a high capacity magazine if you live in Hawaii, Massachusetts, New York, DC, or Chicago. Has the crime rate plummeted there? No? Have they repealed the laws on high cap mags when they saw they didn't help? Hmmm, not yet.

Passing stupid gun laws in CA is a stepping stone to passing them in your state. That's the point. Saying screw California is easy. I suppose saying screw Chicago is easy too. Then screw New York. After a while, it adds up and then, one day, you're screwed. Taking away our rights doesn't happen quickly. It's happened in CA and many of you don't seem to care. I'm sure the antis love that fact. Taking over the country one state at a time.

You don't have to DO anything for Californians. We're fighting it as best we can. I keep telling my gun friendly friends at work that their vote counts more than the 100 antigun asshats who are all talk and no vote. What ISN'T helping is saying screw California and moving on. This just shows everyone that your 2nd amendment rights are important to you in your little bubble, not necessarily to every American. The antis like that too. It makes you less of a threat in the grand scheme of things. They'll just take the easy wins first, because you won't care or bother to support the gun owners in those areas. Don't worry though, they'll be back to check on you when they have a few more major cities and states under their belts.

What you can DO for California is simply not throw them under the bus when talk of gun control comes up. Many of us are doing our best to fight the good fight. Having some moral support at the end of the day on a gun board which should support our 2nd amendment rights goes a long way. Imagine going to work 12 hours a day only to come home to your wife and hear her tell you how lazy you are. She should be there to support you no matter what. We should all support our 2nd amendment rights, no matter what.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeV:
Passing stupid gun laws in CA is a stepping stone to passing them in your state.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeV: Taking over the country one state at a time.

Ah, no it's not. Many states have repealed gun laws. Not all of them, but a lot more than you think. Look around, there is a lot more to this country than CA... The DC gun ban is folding, Chicago will soon be behind it... IL wants CCW, as does WI...

You have my full support. I'll even sell you a firearm (surprising easy from an individual to a CA FFL...).

But don't make it out that the country lives and dies by what goes on in CA. Because that is simply not the case... only on TV...

I appreciate the support. That's all I ask.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeV:


We're fighting it as best we can. I keep telling my gun friendly friends at work that their vote counts more than the 100 antigun asshats who are all talk and no vote.

What are you doing? Who is "we" and what have you accomplished?

In this thread there are three groups mentioned, Calguns.net was brought up, Rhino talked about VCDL and I talked about GCO. Here are the links for VCDL and CGO. You should give them a look.

VCDL

GCO

On the front page of both you get information about what both groups are doing at the moment and how they are fighting for our rights. I don't know about VCDL but at GCO we are at every gunshow. GCO is an all volunteer orginazation and we have some powerful people on our side. We are not watching the world go by and we are fighting existing laws as well as blocking any new ones.

Now Georgia and Virgina are two states that have much less restricitve laws than California, but we still fight. I look at Calguns.net and I don't see anything like VCDL or GCO. I don't see a gun lobby I see a website with a link to the NRA and a forum. Do you have a group for California like we have here?

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
What are you doing? Who is "we" and what have you accomplished?

I'm both writing and calling my Governor, Senators, and Congressmen. I am a member of Calguns.net. "We" refers to the other Californians on this board and Calguns.net who are also doing something. What have I accomplished? I've been in this state for less than 3 months so I can't claim I've accomplished much of anything. Since I'm new to CA, I'm still learning about what other resources there are here. Thanks for the links/ideas. I appreciate it and will check them out.

Pale Horse, what you are looking for is the Calguns Foundation. Currently they are battling the handgun roster, AB962, some ccw issues, and incorporation of the 2nd applied to the states. Other CA battles as well are ongoing. Feel free to donate, its tax deductible...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunf...wthread.php?t=108030

RobG5589

you most recent post about CalGuns Foundation is the FIRST TIME I have ever heard of this group...and I have visited CalGuns numerous times. That is the word you need to get out. As others have mentioned many of our state with PRO Gun rights...we still support PRO GUN groups to fight daily and attempts at more BS gun control. In South Carolina we have Grass Roots. You may encourage Cal Guns to take a look at states with successful lobby efforts such as Grass Root South Carolina.

Grass Roots South Carolina

Many of us are going to support our own state initiatives financially. I will try and scounge $50 for CALGUNS to help....but I strongly urge CA members to start looking at other states WITH PROVEN SUCCESS RECORDS...to model CALGUNS after them. It is obvious that the current setup at CALGUNS is not working in its current form.

quote:

Originally posted by RobG5589:
Pale Horse, what you are looking for is the Calguns Foundation. Currently they are battling the handgun roster, AB962, some ccw issues, and incorporation of the 2nd applied to the states. Other CA battles as well are ongoing. Feel free to donate, its tax deductible...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunf...wthread.php?t=108030

Great. So you do have a group. This link seems more like the GCO website.

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php

But reading that link it doesn't seem like much is getting done. It doesn't seem like anything is really even being tried. I suggest before anybody donate anything they check out the link and ask themselves what the money is going to be used on. Is there a different site that has more information on it? I don't see anything on AB962 on the site and the last update was August. The thread you linked to is all about donations and has no news updates that I saw.

The only effective way I see in turning the state around on gun rights is if gun and ammo manufacturers/suppliers impose the same restrictions on state LEO as citizens, or an outright boycott. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, think about all those people who do want real AR15s, AKs, 30 round magazines, 17 round glock mags. Sadly they are all too willing to soak up that government contract.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
The only effective way I see in turning the state around on gun rights is if gun and ammo manufacturers/suppliers impose the same restrictions on state LEO as citizens, or an outright boycott. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, think about all those people who do want real AR15s, AKs, 30 round magazines, 17 round glock mags. Sadly they are all too willing to soak up that government contract.

I too would love to see a boycott of the state government of California by gun makers.

The Foundation is a "newer" part of Calguns. They have a lot going on at the moment as I listed above. The major issues currently are the Calif handgun roster, which is a list of the only new handguns you can buy from a dealer; the way CCW's are issued; fighting AB962, the ammo registration that recently was signed; incorp of the 2nd to the states, the Heller decision, and other issues as well. Honestly, they really should promote it more. I am not part of the foundation, just a member of the website, so I do not want to speak for them as I am in no position to do so. These are just things I see the foundation doing as a member of Calguns. Right now it seems like they have several issues in the works but as we all know, it takes time. The incorp was punted to the supreme court recently.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
The only effective way I see in turning the state around on gun rights is if gun and ammo manufacturers/suppliers impose the same restrictions on state LEO as citizens, or an outright boycott. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, think about all those people who do want real AR15s, AKs, 30 round magazines, 17 round glock mags. Sadly they are all too willing to soak up that government contract.

I too would love to see a boycott of the state government of California by gun makers.

Its been discussed on forums. Problem is, even with the restrictions CA has, it is a huge market for gun makers both private and LE. At last estimate, there was something like 250k to 300k off list AR lowers, which are what we need to build a CA compliant semi auto. Thats a huge market considering all the uppers, part kits, mags, etc, etc. for manufacturers. Barret and STI have ditched the CA market but, they are small potatoes so not much was lost to them in sales. It is more of a symbolic boycot than anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
The only effective way I see in turning the state around on gun rights is if gun and ammo manufacturers/suppliers impose the same restrictions on state LEO as citizens, or an outright boycott. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, ... (snipped)

I too would love to see a boycott of the state government of California by gun makers.

Pale Horse,
One manufacturer did, Ronnie Barrett.

In response to California's 50 cal ban

In response to LA's 50 cal ban

The letter to LAPD Chief Bratton was posted on the front page of Barrett's website at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Storm:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
The only effective way I see in turning the state around on gun rights is if gun and ammo manufacturers/suppliers impose the same restrictions on state LEO as citizens, or an outright boycott. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, ... (snipped)

I too would love to see a boycott of the state government of California by gun makers.

Pale Horse,
One manufacturer did, Ronnie Barrett.

In response to California's 50 cal ban

In response to LA's 50 cal ban

The letter to LAPD Chief Bratton was posted on the front page of Barrett's website at the time.

STI has done the same thing. I applaud both Barrett and STI for their choice. It is too bad that neither had any effect, but most likely this is due to neither realy having a stranglehold on the CA government contracts. Now if Glock, S&W, Colt, Ruger, Sig, FN, HK, Mossberg, Remington, Kimber, Winchester, Beretta and S.A. would join in that would be something. With the new restrictions on ammo maybe Federal and Speer could jump on too.

I don't see it happening but it would be great and if I ran any of those I would immediatly halt all CA state government sales and service. But maybe that's why I won't be running any of those anytime soon.

http://www.stiguns.com/CA-PressRelease.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by Bellzy:
So much for the "UNITED" States of America. You guys who say "Fuck Calif." are pathetic! I suppose you would say the same thing about your brother or another one of your family members if they had a problem or could benifit from just a small amount of your assistance.

Just keep in mind that it is The Constitution of The United States and not The Constitution of The United States Except California. The OP is right, the 2nd ammendment applies to us all and we should be on our toes and remain vigilant. If the powers that be can find a way to bypass it, you can bet we will all suffer for it. Let's just all hope that SCOTUS will come to the decision to incorporate.

As a person who has supported Californians continuously, this type of post does not help. Just what do you expect us to do for you? We fight for gun rights in our own state legislatures, ensuring that the liberal creep from your state does not infect ours. The best thing we are doing for you is not joining your government in its gun control schemes, and we fight it on a state and national level.

For a state as large as California, your gun-rights organizations are a joke. My home state of Virginia has the outstanding VCDL, an organization that does more for this whole country than anybody realizes. My current home, Utah, is very active with goUtah, which serves a similar purpose. We are constantly working to increase gun rights here, and serve as a hedge against the shit that comes out of Sacramento. Your AWB was passed in 1989. In twenty years, how many gun-rights rallys have there been at the capitol. Any gun owner's barbecues or other get-togethers so you can organize? Is anybody making a tenacious effort to organize? I didn't think so. Hell, even Guns and Ammo has given up and moved from LA to Illinois.

Until you Californians get yourselves together and do more than post on Sigforum, hold off on calling us pathetic. Like an alcoholic, change must come from within.