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SIGforum's Indian
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Thanks, haven't heard a peep about it.


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

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Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rep. Joe Salazar (D), one of the promoters of the Mag Ban and member of the committee where the repeal bill is now, has said he might be willing to compromise on the repeal of the Mag Ban. That compromise would be to allow up to 30 round mags.

The Independence Institute (Dave Kopel, Jon Caldera, et. al.) and Colorado 2nd Amendment Association seem to support the compromise. However, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (RMGO; Dudley Brown) are vehemently against it. There seems to be a feud roiling up over it.

Colorado 2nd Amendment Association's post on this (w/ video of Salazar addressing the compromise)

Independence Institute's post on this

RMGO's post on this

What do you all think? Take the compromise for the time being, and push for a complete repeal later, or reject it and keep pushing for a repeal this session which likely may not happen?

I'm for taking the compromise.



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Posts: 3849 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting Storm, thanks for the links.

I agree, take what we can now. I'm sure it is all politically motivated with Salazar Roll Eyes. Of course, even if there is a "compromise", will Chickenpooper even sign it?


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

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Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, on first blush Rep. Salazar's comments are a surprising and interesting turn of events. Definitely didn't see that coming...

... but, from the way he phrased and hedged his comments, I don't believe he would give a compromise like this any serious consideration. He basically said if someone were to introduce this compromise he would consider it and to my knowledge, no one has actually introduced this compromise so, politically speaking, he is "safe" in floating this compromise, especially this close to the hearing date.

Also, per the link Colomtn posted on the previous page, it looks like the anti-gun Democrats want to get 2A bills off the "front page" of public debate, presumably to clear the way for their other agenda narratives, so I believe they are looking to give the appearance of giving these bills a fair shot in a casually dismissive atmosphere...


... now, having said all that, as much as it irks me that there is any restriction on magazine capacity, IF the anti-2A Dems really are interested in some sort of a compromise than I believe, from a politically pragmatic standpoint, we should take it... and then fight like hell to repeal any restriction.

As usual guys, thanks for all the updates & info! Cool
 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think Rep. Salazar has been getting bombarded with letters, emails, etc. in support of this bill. I've seen a number of communiques from both the NRA and local pro-2A organizations urging people to contact him.

To a degree, this is political theater from the Republicans, as, if all these pro-2A bills are killed (in either committee or on the floor), the Reps will have ammo in the next election. So maybe this is a genuine attempt by the Dems to blunt that in 2016. On the other hand, perhaps this is a disengenous offer by Salazar and/or the Dems. Even if Salazar allows it out of committee, it still has to jump the hurdles of the House floor and Hick's desk.

The thing is, even if the political winds blow in our favor over the next couple elections, we may not have the ability to repeal these laws until 2018 2019. Remember, Hickenlooper was re-elected last year, so he won't be out of office until 2018 2019.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Storm,



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Posts: 3849 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm:
Rep. Joe Salazar (D), one of the promoters of the Mag Ban and member of the committee where the repeal bill is now, has said he might be willing to compromise on the repeal of the Mag Ban. That compromise would be to allow up to 30 round mags.

The Independence Institute (Dave Kopel, Jon Caldera, et. al.) and Colorado 2nd Amendment Association seem to support the compromise. However, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners (RMGO; Dudley Brown) are vehemently against it. There seems to be a feud roiling up over it.

Colorado 2nd Amendment Association's post on this (w/ video of Salazar addressing the compromise)

Independence Institute's post on this

RMGO's post on this

What do you all think? Take the compromise for the time being, and push for a complete repeal later, or reject it and keep pushing for a repeal this session which likely may not happen?

I'm for taking the compromise.


I agree. Take the 30's and give up the 100 round jamomatic gimmick magazines.


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Posts: 707 | Location: Wheat Ridge, Colorado | Registered: October 26, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yep, there's a full blown feud over this "compromise".

The Independence Institute (Jon Caldera - President, Dave Kopel - Research Director & Second Amendment Project Director) and a number of other smaller Colorado 2A rights organizations are pushing the "compromise". RMGO (Dudley Brown - Executive Director) opposes the compromise and has now resorted to hyperbole and ad hominem attacks against Caldera and Kopel.

Independence Institute/Jon Caldera:
April 10, 2015, 10:25AM

April 13, 2015, 3:00PM

Note: Dudley Brown replies to both Caldera's above posts as "DW Brown"


RMGO/Dudley Brown:
April 13, 2015, 10:00PM

April 13, 2015, 12:00PM



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Posts: 3849 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^Wow.


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

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Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bigpond73:
^^^Wow.


This (and other reasons) are why I don't support RMGO anymore.



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Posts: 3849 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Dudley needs to get put on a leash.

I appreciate the no-compromise sentiment but it's not realistic given the purple nurple state legislature. A 30 round limit is WAY better than 15!
 
Posts: 4371 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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All 6 bills "put on hold indefinitely", IOW, killed:

http://www.colorado2a.org/pro-...ado-democrats-again/

Frown


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

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Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Son of a bitch.
 
Posts: 4371 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm:
quote:
Originally posted by bigpond73:
^^^Wow.


This (and other reasons) are why I don't support RMGO anymore.


I crossed that bridge myself some time ago.

I truly appreciate the fact that RMGO is comprised of fellow gun owners and most of us will agree that any magazine capacity restriction is unacceptable... but RMGO consistently takes a dogmatic stance on issues and ignores the practical reality of our political situation. The fact that they chose to attack fellow gun owners by leveling inaccurate hyperbole at Jon Caldara, Dave Kopel, and the Independence Institute, at a time when Colorado gun owners should be coming together and fighting these anti-2A laws within the reality of our political situation... well, they lose all credibility with me. RMGO is more interested in making statements then solving problems.

Sometimes gun owners are their own worst enemies. Frown
 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Despite our differences, and because I understand that we are going to need RMGO's help to continue fighting these bad laws, and to try to avoid any more in-fighting among CO. gun owners I will say that RMGO has a really cool ammo delivery vehicle. Cool

 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bigpond73:
All 6 bills "put on hold indefinitely", IOW, killed:

http://www.colorado2a.org/pro-...ado-democrats-again/

Frown



Here is the link and the article linked in bigpond73's post:

Bills to repeal new background checks, magazine limits for guns fail in Democrat-led committee

Bills to repeal new background checks, magazine limits for guns fail in Democrat-led committee

By IVAN MORENO Associated Press
April 14, 2015 - 1:26 am EDT

DENVER — Democrats halted a GOP effort to repeal new background checks for private firearm sales in Colorado on Monday as Republicans got their last chance this legislative session to change the state's gun restrictions.

A GOP measure to eliminate a law that bans ammunition magazines that hold more than 15 rounds was also rejected by ruling House Democrats. Both gun-control laws were part of a package of legislation Democrats passed in 2013 at great political cost, losing two state senators through recall elections. A third resigned while a recall campaign was underway.

A Democrat-led House committee voted 7-4 against repealing the requirement that private gun sales conducted online and in person be subjected to a criminal background check. The same committee voted 6-5 to reject the bill to get rid of the state's ammunition magazine limit.

Democrats passed the laws when they controlled both legislative chambers, acting in response to mass shootings in 2012 at a suburban Denver movie theater and Connecticut's Sandy Hook Elementary School.

Republicans regained control of the state Senate for the first time in 10 years in November and succeeded in passing bills in that chamber to repeal the two new gun laws. But most expected the proposals to hit a wall in the Democratic-controlled House, which had already stopped two identical bills earlier this session that would eliminate the magazine limit and the background-check expansion.

"I don't believe that helps us," Democratic House Speaker Dickey Lee Hullinghorst said about the repeal attempts hours before they were heard. "I think what we have passed seems to be working and has not taken away anybody's gun rights as far as I know — and so I'm not in support of taking steps backwards on any of these."

Democrats say the new background checks are not burdensome and make it tougher for people with criminal records to get firearms.

Opponents of the new background-check law have repeatedly argued that the new background checks infringe on the constitutional right to gun ownership.

PHOTO: Jane Dougherty, center, whose sister was killed in the Newtown, Conn., school shooting in 2012, sits with Dave Hoover, left, and Tom Sullivan, both of whom lost close family members in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting, listening to testimony on bills aimed at undoing recent firearm laws, at the state Legislature, in Denver, Monday April 13, 2015. Lawmakers considered several proposals, including two Republican-sponsored bills to eliminate gun-control measures passed by Democrats in 2013. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)Jane Dougherty, center, whose sister was killed in the Newtown, Conn., school shooting in 2012, sits with Dave Hoover, left, and Tom Sullivan, both of whom lost close family members in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater shooting, listening to testimony on bills aimed at undoing recent firearm laws, at the state Legislature, in Denver, Monday April 13, 2015. Lawmakers considered several proposals, including two Republican-sponsored bills to eliminate gun-control measures passed by Democrats in 2013. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)
"It's a Second Amendment right, and law-abiding citizens by definition aren't criminals, so it creates a burden on them that doesn't stop crime," said Rep. Stephen Humphrey, R-Severance.

Humphrey sponsored the bill to strike the state's ban on magazines that hold more than 15 rounds. He told lawmakers it is a matter of public safety to eliminate the limit, saying larger magazines would help people defend themselves. Republicans said that if the bill were to get out of committee and onto the full House, they had enough votes to pass it and send it to the governor.

"Please reconsider, vote to repeal this law here today," Humphrey said.

Gov. John Hickenlooper, who signed the gun-control laws, said last month he "would have real misgivings" about eliminating the magazine restriction.

Humphrey noted discussions about amending the bill to raise the magazine limit to 30 rounds instead of an outright repeal of the law. But he said he would "be opposed to that in principle," suggesting that the goal is still to get rid of the law.

"If the Republicans vote for a gun-control measure like that," Humphrey said of the possibility of raising the limit, "then how do you come back after you pass that and then say, 'We ought to repeal that bill next year' ?"

Also Monday, Democrats rejected a bill to allow concealed handguns at public schools.



I'm as disappointed as the rest of you in this outcome. I would have been happy to see these bad laws get repealed... but we knew this could happen.

I think it is important to note the vote on the magazine capacity repeal. 6-5. One vote. We lost by one vote. I think that shows that our effort had a real impact on the anti-2A Democrats...

... so, we grab some R&R, we regroup, resupply, and hit 'em even harder in the 2016 legislative session. Cool
 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
......I will say that RMGO has a really cool ammo delivery vehicle. Cool



Love those Pinzs! Of course if I was to get one, it would be the K model. Cool


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

#CNNblackmail
 
Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
... so, we grab some R&R, we regroup, resupply, and hit 'em even harder in the 2016 legislative session. Cool


Couldn't agree more. Smile


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

#CNNblackmail
 
Posts: 4518 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's a summary of the whole "compromise bill" and feud between Caldera and Brown.

Observations about the Colorado Gun Magazine Spat, by Armstrong

ETA: This stuff popped up, and it seems relevant. It looks like there's some political shennanigans going on from the RMGO side.

Denver Post: Gun-magazine bill rift leads to unheard of maneuver in Colorado House

ColoradoPols.com: On radio, RMGO’s Brown talks as if he owns the GOP Senate majority

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Storm,



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Posts: 3849 | Location: Colorado | Registered: December 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Keepin' it going.
 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If any of our members live in the Boulder area these Open Houses might be worth attending.

Colorado: Boulder County Hosting Three Open Houses to Discuss Designated Shooting Areas

Colorado: Boulder County Hosting Three Open Houses to Discuss Designated Shooting Areas

MONDAY, JULY 06, 2015

Boulder County is hosting three open houses to discuss possible designated shooting areas in the County. This is part of a recreational shooting strategy that is under consideration by the Northern Front Range Recreational Sports Shooting Management Partnership (Partnership). The Partnership was formed by the US Forest Service to work across the boundaries of the Arapahoe-Roosevelt National Forests and four counties to provide safe, responsible, and accessible recreational sport shooting opportunities.

The three open houses are as follows:

Monday, July 20 from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m.
Nederland Community Center
750 Highway 72 North
Nederland


Tuesday, July 21 from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m.
Boulder County Clerk & Recorder’s Office
1750 33rd St.
Boulder


Thursday, August 6 from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m.
Peaceful Valley Resort
475 Peaceful Valley Road
Lyons


The meetings will be open house-style with multiple stations set up for attendees to obtain information and provide comments. There will be no scheduled presentations and people are welcome to come and go as they please.

A table with information about the preliminary criteria that was used to select the areas will be set up for attendees to view. There will also be a station to display maps of possible designated shooting areas currently under consideration. For this first round of possibilities, the areas include:

Ruby Gulch
West Magnolia
Allenspark Dump (analysis and public involvement has been completed and is pending a decision)
Bunce School Road
Beaver Reservoir Road
Boulder County is in the process of drafting Land Use Code provisions about where and whether future shooting ranges will be allowed in unincorporated areas of the County. The County will have a station to explain the process for amending its Land Use Code to include such requirements as the appropriate size of a site, setbacks from neighboring properties, and health and safety requirements. Staff members will be on hand to discuss the possible areas and comment cards will be available for residents to complete.

More information about the Partnership and criteria for identifying possible designated shooting areas can be found online at www.SportShootingPartners.org.

If you are a hunter and/or shooter concerned about the future of sport shooting on the 625 square miles of forest land that the Partnership is reviewing, along with the future of such opportunities in Boulder, Clear Creek, Gilpin and Larimer Counties, it is important that your interests are represented at the open houses.

Please take the time to attend one of these open houses to familiarize yourself with what designated shooting areas are under consideration and provide the Partnership with your comments about the importance of maintaining access and opportunities on public lands for sport shooting.

The NRA also encourages you to provide feedback to Boulder County to ensure that its Land Use Code does not become a No-Use Code for sport shooting in the County.
 
Posts: 4644 | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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