Ok...so how many guns is too many for the Feds?

Several of my friends have commented in jest that the ATF will visit me because of the number of weapons I have. I know a few guys who own more than I do. Should we be concerned? Is there such a thing that lets the ATF know how many guns you have purchased?

In a word NO,

If the BATFE were to come to your door and request to see any firearms that you may or may not own, ask to see their warrant, if they don't have one wish them a good day.

The Second Amendment states "The RIGHT of the people to KEEP and BEAR (ARMS) shall not be INFRINGED, (ARMS) would seem to suggest as many as you (one of the people) damn well want/need.

What's a lot? Over 500 guns?

They cannot ask to see a weapon without a court order. They can ask to see class III weapons. They cannot come into your house without a warrant, but they can ask to see class III stuff, which you can bring to the door for them. They need a warrant to see any other guns. Any other government agency needs a warrant for class III or regular guns.

I guess it depends on your definition of a lot. I thought I had a lot and I have around 35 guns + some class III stuff. One guy a county north of me has around 480 guns, and another guy in my county has between 420-450 total in three different states (he's retired and has a house, cabin and a lake house). They claim ATF has never visited either of them.

I really think you would have to have several hundred guns and they would have to have a reasonable suspicion that you are dealing without a license for them to come visit you.

They might show up if you make $28,000 a year and you do 500 background checks in a year. They might be suspicious about how you're getting so many guns.

Most likely they will never come to your house for firearm issues...they will most likely show up for tax issues.

They don't do lots of raids, and when they do it's usually about things illegally manufactured (without paying SOT) or about things illegally imported (again without paying proper taxes) or about things illegally dealt without a license (again, for not paying a tax).

The only guys I hear of being "visited" by the ATF are hoods, drug runners and career criminals. In over 20 years of LE experience on the state, local and county level I have had exactly one professional contact with them, when I recovered a revolver with a ground-off serial number. They told me they weren't interested in local cases unless they could tie it to an organized gang.

I have quite a few friends who are individual FFLs. None have ever mentioned ever being visited by an agent. I don't know how many guns I own, and am far more worried about my guns being visited by one of the local meth heads than the ATF.

Sounds like BS to me. I wouldn't worry about it.

quote:

Originally posted by sendec:
The only guys I hear of being "visited" by the ATF are hoods, drug runners and career criminals.

Well, I don't fit that mold, but I did get a visit by the ATF once.....Long, long time ago.

1976 to be exact. I had purchased 2 S&W Model 29's at the same time (44 mag w/8 3/8" barrel, 1 blue & 1 nickel).

About 2-3 months later, there was a knock at the door and the guy flashed a Treasury badge and stated that he was from the ATF. He asked to come in and inquired if I still had the Model 29's and if so, could he see them.

I had nothing to hide, so I complied. Seems that at that time, a purchase of more than 1 gun at a time raised some kind of flag....They wanted to see if I was illegally 'dealing' in guns.

After he checked the serial #'s of the guns, we talked for about a 1/2 hour about guns and gun control laws....He was a nice guy....just doing his job.

Bob

ok...thanks guys.......by your definition I dont have "a lot" of guns.......somewhere around 25 I would guess.

quote:

Originally posted by dcolson:
ok...thanks guys.......by your definition I dont have "a lot" of guns.......somewhere around 25 I would guess.

Yeah, I'd say there are thousands too many people in the same boat for ATFE to visit them all.

Unfortunately, some people believe the BATF can take advantage of the almighty 'Patriot Law' to screw anybody they want.

quote:

Originally posted by sigpro:
Unfortunately, some people believe the BATF can take advantage of the almighty 'Patriot Law' to screw anybody they want.

Maybe they can...If they have used the Patriot act to search your house and investigate you they also get to prevent you from talking about it under that same law even if they found nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by dcolson:
.......somewhere around 25 I would guess.

That's not a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by sendec:
The only guys I hear of being "visited" by the ATF are hoods, drug runners and career criminals.

Tell that to the Branch Davidians, they were none of the above.

I know a couple people that have over 200 guns each and neither are FFL (01 or 03) holders.
They have never been visited or even contacted by the BATF.

With that in mind....I know someone who has never held a gun in her life ....and had the visit......but I get the point. Thanks to all.

In THEORY (emphasis added), BATF would not know how many firearms you had. In THEORY, the chain stops at first transfer out from mfg until a) the gun is logged as a "crime gun" (recovered in a crime, reported stolen, etc.) , or b) BATF starts following the ownership chain via FFL records. Given that most transfer records are in THEORY held locally in the FFL's bound book, they would have to have a reason to investigate given the manpower needed to randomly look for a multi-gun situation.

More information here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22458.pdf

The ATF will not show up just for owning guns, no matter what the number is. But if you sell a gun or guns and they end up used in a crime they might show up. In the past the ATF might visit someone if they bought several guns at once. Multiple gun purchases were rare years ago, today it's so common the ATF would have to double their number of agents.

NFA items do not need to be shown to the ATF unless they have a warrant. The paperwork on the other hand is required if they see you with an NFA item. Some will argue they can ask for the paperwork at anytime, but asking a giving is a different story.

If they have a warrant they won't be asking they will be telling...

quote:

Originally posted by sig228-gsr:
The ATF will not show up just for owning guns, no matter what the number is. But if you sell a gun or guns and they end up used in a crime they might show up. In the past the ATF might visit someone if they bought several guns at once. Multiple gun purchases were rare years ago, today it's so common the ATF would have to double their number of agents.

More than one handgun purchased within 5 business days does require a dealer to submit a Multiple Purchase form to the BATF.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

quote:

Originally posted by sig228-gsr:
The ATF will not show up just for owning guns, no matter what the number is. But if you sell a gun or guns and they end up used in a crime they might show up. In the past the ATF might visit someone if they bought several guns at once. Multiple gun purchases were rare years ago, today it's so common the ATF would have to double their number of agents.

More than one handgun purchased within 5 business days does require a dealer to submit a Multiple Purchase form to the BATF.

Is that a Fed thing or a State thing?
I don't remember any extra paperwork when I bought all my CAS guns at one time. Of course, it may be like a bank, there is some paperwork done that they may or may not have to tell you about.

Just because you have a large collection is not going to get you a visit. Now if your participating in some activity that gets you theattention of LEOs then that's another story but guns along are not the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by hudr:

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

quote:

Originally posted by sig228-gsr:
The ATF will not show up just for owning guns, no matter what the number is. But if you sell a gun or guns and they end up used in a crime they might show up. In the past the ATF might visit someone if they bought several guns at once. Multiple gun purchases were rare years ago, today it's so common the ATF would have to double their number of agents.

More than one handgun purchased within 5 business days does require a dealer to submit a Multiple Purchase form to the BATF.

Is that a Fed thing or a State thing?
I don't remember any extra paperwork when I bought all my CAS guns at one time. Of course, it may be like a bank, there is some paperwork done that they may or may not have to tell you about.

It is a federal requirement of licensees to complete the multiple sales forms for the purchase of more than 1 handgun at the same dealer within 5 business days. The reason that you wouldn't remember filling out any extra paperwork is because you didn't. The paperwork is filled out by the dealer, not the purchaser.

As for getting a visit from ATF, unless you purchased a firearm from a dealer that was later used in a crime, or are buying 10 hi point pistols a week, you aren't likely to ever see an ATF Agent. The number of firearms you own really isn't an issue.