Original Article


Gun crime doubles in a decade
Gun crime has almost doubled in the last decade despite high profile Government campaigns to tackle the problem.

By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor
Published: 7:00AM GMT 27 Oct 2009

Offences involving firearms have increased in all but four police areas in England and Wales since 1998, figures obtained by the Tories reveal.
One part of the country has seen the problem increase almost seven fold as the availability of guns, and criminals' williness to use them rises.

The number of people injured or killed by a gun has also doubled under Labour. It emerged last week that armed police are to carry out regular street patrols for the first time to help combat gun crime in London.
Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary, said: "These figures are all the more alarming given that it is only a week since the Metropolitan Police said it was increasing regular armed patrols in some areas of the capital.
"In areas dominated by gang culture, we're now seeing guns used to settle scores between rivals as well as turf wars between rival drug dealers. We need to redouble our efforts to deal with the challenge."

There were 9,865 firearm offences in 2007/08, a rise of 89 per cent on the 5,209 recorded in 1998/99. Lancashire Police saw a 598 per cent increase from just 50 to 349 over the period while Staffordshire, Warwickshire and Essex all saw five fold increases. In total, 21 forces saw offences at least double over the decade while just four, Cleveland, Humberside, Cambridgeshire and Sussex, saw the number fall.

While provisional figures for 2008/09 suggest overall firearm offences may be down on the previous year, they point to a doubling of the number of people injured or killed. Some 1,760 gun related injuries or deaths were provisionally recorded for 2008/09, compared with 864 in 1998/99.
Last week, the Metropolitan Police announced officers armed with submachine guns are to patrol the streets for the first time.

A hand-picked team from CO19, the Met's elite firearms unit, will walk the beat in gun crime hot spots in London where armed gangs have turned estates into "no-go zones". The officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns, capable of firing 800 rounds a minute, and Glock semi-automatic pistols. It is the first time that armed officers will be sent on routine foot patrol anywhere in the country outside Northern Ireland.

There is also a growing trend of young women being involved in gun crime.
Figures from the Met earlier this month showed the number caught hiding weapons for criminals and boyfriends increase from two in 2007 to 12 so far this year. A Home Office spokeswoman said: "It is misleading to compare figures for 2007 / 08 with those from 2002 and before, due to changes in recording practices. "There has been an 11 per cent fall in gun crime since 2005 and provisional figures for firearm offences recorded by the police show they account for 0.2 per cent of all recorded crime.
"We remain absolutely committed to tackling gun crime through targeted policing and tough policing."

Question:
I'm interested in the views of American Citizens on this board.

After reading the included article from The Telegraph about the failed social engineering program in England and the mass violence it has spawned, how do you feel about the importance of such stories?

Choices:
They will strongly influence the future of Second Amendment rights in the US.
They will influence the future of Second Amendment rights in the US.
They will only mildly influence the future of Second Amendment rights in the US.
They have no influence the future of Second Amendment rights in the US.
The future of Second Amendment rights in the US is constantly under attack, and damage from all quarters must constantly be held in check.

 

What would be extremely interesting is:

1. A comparison of crime rates in England, Scotland, and Wales with crime rates in Ireland and other areas of where firearms ownership has not declined.

2. An analysis of the types of guns being used in criminal acts. If the majority are handguns, one must ask the source of those handguns.

3. Information on the number of firearms smuggling events that are interdicted. I maintain that if drug cabals can bring in large volumes of illegal drugs, bringing in guns is easy.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
What would be extremely interesting is:

2. An analysis of the types of guns being used in criminal acts. If the majority are handguns, one must ask the source of those handguns.

BBC's news site had a story about some enterprising chaps who took legal stage/mock guns and modified them to fire live ammo. Their trial was maybe a year or so ago.

The big trick is where did they get the ammo? Either it was stolen or illegally imported, yes, smuggled, into the country. Of course, many Brits probably would surrender their money if faced with any firearm, loaded or not.

Constantly under attack IMO.

And I live in Chicago where handgun crime is totally out of control yet ALL handguns are illegal in Chicago. When they report the violence, they NEVER state if the gun was purchased legally or illegally. I'm sure if they kept statistics, ALL would be illegal since ALL are illegal to posses in Chicago.

What a joke. All gun restrictions do is give criminals no-gun zones to run wild in.

Can't cite a source, but I seem to recall reading that a lot of the guns coming into the UK are coming from Eastern Europe. Ammo could be coming from anywhere, with France being the best bet. This is especially the case given that converted 'fake' guns are generally .22s; .22s are still legally obtainable over there.

i wonder if the increase in gun crime is due to all guns being illegal in that if they exist they are illegal, rather than an increase in violent gun crime

Violent crime is rampant there. Much like South Africa, people with an option to leave are getting out while they still can.

quote:

Originally posted by sprint:
Violent crime is rampant there. Much like South Africa, people with an option to leave are getting out while they still can.

where are they going?

Violent crime has always been rampant in the UK, The beatdown is the national sport, second to soccer.

If you are trying to establish a causal link between an increase in violent crime with a decrease in the ability to legally own a firearms, there are a lot of other variables to consider. It may correlate, but that doesn't establish a relationship. This thrust of this article would seem to be that criminals are using guns more frequently, that may or may not have any relationship to civilian ownership. After all, when everyone has guns, it is far easier for criminals to get them than when they are strictly controlled. Why are more criminals using more guns than before, particularly knowing that the guns have to be obtained through illegal channels and their possession alone adds additional legal risk to their already criminal activities? If they are taking into consideration the fact that the average person is not going tobe armed, one would think that they would actually be using guns less.

But the article also points out that this is most apparent in areas controlled by criminal gangs, and in those causes a lot of the violence is directed at other members of the criminal community. I'm sure England is no different than us in the aspect of having a lot of crimes which fall into the "No Humans Involved" category.

And if the UK had that much influence we'd still be using funny-sized money with pictures of old ladies on it. While we may share a common ancestral history, there are more differences than commonalities in governance. Likewise, comparing British social sciences and policing from a theoretical perspective, their isn't much in common, either.

quote:

Originally posted by BJEC1248:

quote:

Originally posted by sprint:
Violent crime is rampant there. Much like South Africa, people with an option to leave are getting out while they still can.

where are they going?

We have a large community of them here in our professional class.

My doctor is black South African. My friend's business partner is white South African. My wife's former employers or a dental lab are South African. That's all anecdotal, of course. But in a town of 60,000 you also meet all their friends.

The story is generally the same.

quote:

Originally posted by sendec:
Violent crime has always been rampant in the UK, The beatdown is the national sport, second to soccer.

If you are trying to establish a causal link between an increase in violent crime with a decrease in the ability to legally own a firearms, there are a lot of other variables to consider. It may correlate, but that doesn't establish a relationship. This thrust of this article would seem to be that criminals are using guns more frequently, that may or may not have any relationship to civilian ownership. After all, when everyone has guns, it is far easier for criminals to get them than when they are strictly controlled. Why are more criminals using more guns than before, particularly knowing that the guns have to be obtained through illegal channels and their possession alone adds additional legal risk to their already criminal activities? If they are taking into consideration the fact that the average person is not going tobe armed, one would think that they would actually be using guns less.

But the article also points out that this is most apparent in areas controlled by criminal gangs, and in those causes a lot of the violence is directed at other members of the criminal community. I'm sure England is no different than us in the aspect of having a lot of crimes which fall into the "No Humans Involved" category.

And if the UK had that much influence we'd still be using funny-sized money with pictures of old ladies on it. While we may share a common ancestral history, there are more differences than commonalities in governance. Likewise, comparing British social sciences and policing from a theoretical perspective, their isn't much in common, either.

Thanks for your comments.

Armed crime has indeed spiked noticeably. To my view, the case of correlation is being made by the British citizens themselves. Restriction hasn't stopped the flow of guns to criminals any more than criminalization of drugs has slowed the drug trade. It has simply created a criminal monopoly of force.

It is a subject that preoccupies its press and its people. No surprise, because it reflects what happens when only the bad guys have guns.

People that want to take your guns away from you are not interested in the facts or long term studies. You're either: unsafe, unstable, untrained, or dangerous in dealing with firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by Mrs. Khan's little boy Genghis:
People that want to take your guns away from you are not interested in the facts or long term studies. You're either: unsafe, unstable, untrained, or dangerous in dealing with firearms.

Give the smart man a penny.

The facts aren't for them. They're for those who sit on the fence. They're also for maintaining the morale of those who agree with the need for placing reasonable limitations on the state.

For those who believe as you say, the only solution is to knock them right out of office. Like Rosie to Tom Selleck, they simply will not be reasoned with.


This is the 'reasonable' end to which the socialists lean. It is a strong reminder why they must not be given even one inch.

quote:

Original Article

Parents banned from watching their children in playgrounds... in case they are pedophiles

By Laura Clark
Last updated at 7:18 PM on 28th October 2009

* Comments (520)
* Add to My Stories


Parents are being banned from playing with their children in council recreation areas because they have not been vetted by police.

Mothers and fathers are being forced to watch their children from outside perimeter fences because of fears they could be paedophiles.

Watford Council was branded a 'disgrace' yesterday after excluding parents from two fenced-off adventure playgrounds unless they first undergo criminal record checks.

Children as young as five will instead be supervised by council 'play rangers' who have been cleared by the Criminal Records Bureau.

Councillors insist they are merely following Government regulations and cannot allow adults to walk around playgrounds 'unchecked'.

But furious parents attacked the move and threatened to boycott the playgrounds.

Concerns were raised last night that other councils around the country are adopting similar policies amid confusion over Government rules and increasing hysteria over child protection.

It comes amid an escalating row over the Government's new anti-paedophile database, which will contain the names of more than 11million adults cleared to work with children and vulnerable adults.

Mother-of-five Marcella Bergin, 35, from Watford, who has been visiting the play areas for many years, said: 'It's like they are branding all parents potential paedophiles, which is disgraceful.

'Ninety-nine per cent of people are great parents and certainly not child abusers.'

Mother-of-eight Jenny Abbasi, 41, whose children also use the playgrounds, said the new rules were 'a disgrace'.

Miss Abbasi, from Garston, Hertfordshire, said: 'I have been using the playgrounds for 18 years and it's a sad day when parents cannot be involved with the enjoyment of their children.'

The rules were imposed at Harwoods and Harebreaks adventure recreation grounds from this week.

Activities on the half-acre sites include a skateboard half-pipe, a zip line and rope swings.

Play rangers patrol both parks - which are for children aged five to 15 - and are fully qualified with CRB checks.

Parents already have to 'register' their child on arrival so staff have their contact details in the event of an accident. But now only those who have been selected for CRB vetting by the council can enter the sites.

Mayor Dorothy Thornhill argued the council was merely enforcing government policy at the play areas.

'Sadly, in today's climate, you can't have adults walking around unchecked in a children's playground and the adventure playground is not a meeting place for adults,' she said.

But the Tories claimed the row showed the Government's ' heavy- handed' approach to safeguarding was 'completely out of control'.

quote:

Originally posted by sprint:

quote:

Originally posted by Mrs. Khan's little boy Genghis:
People that want to take your guns away from you are not interested in the facts or long term studies. You're either: unsafe, unstable, untrained, or dangerous in dealing with firearms.

Give the smart man a penny.

The facts aren't for them. They're for those who sit on the fence. They're also for maintaining the morale of those who agree with the need for placing reasonable limitations on the state.

For those who believe as you say, the only solution is to knock them right out of office. Like Rosie to Tom Selleck, they simply will not be reasoned with.


This is the 'reasonable' end to which the socialists lean. It is a strong reminder why they must not be given even one inch.

quote:

Original Article

Parents banned from watching their children in playgrounds... in case they are pedophiles

By Laura Clark
Last updated at 7:18 PM on 28th October 2009

* Comments (520)
* Add to My Stories


Parents are being banned from playing with their children in council recreation areas because they have not been vetted by police.

Mothers and fathers are being forced to watch their children from outside perimeter fences because of fears they could be paedophiles.

Watford Council was branded a 'disgrace' yesterday after excluding parents from two fenced-off adventure playgrounds unless they first undergo criminal record checks.

Children as young as five will instead be supervised by council 'play rangers' who have been cleared by the Criminal Records Bureau.

Councillors insist they are merely following Government regulations and cannot allow adults to walk around playgrounds 'unchecked'.

But furious parents attacked the move and threatened to boycott the playgrounds.

Concerns were raised last night that other councils around the country are adopting similar policies amid confusion over Government rules and increasing hysteria over child protection.

It comes amid an escalating row over the Government's new anti-paedophile database, which will contain the names of more than 11million adults cleared to work with children and vulnerable adults.

Mother-of-five Marcella Bergin, 35, from Watford, who has been visiting the play areas for many years, said: 'It's like they are branding all parents potential paedophiles, which is disgraceful.

'Ninety-nine per cent of people are great parents and certainly not child abusers.'

Mother-of-eight Jenny Abbasi, 41, whose children also use the playgrounds, said the new rules were 'a disgrace'.

Miss Abbasi, from Garston, Hertfordshire, said: 'I have been using the playgrounds for 18 years and it's a sad day when parents cannot be involved with the enjoyment of their children.'

The rules were imposed at Harwoods and Harebreaks adventure recreation grounds from this week.

Activities on the half-acre sites include a skateboard half-pipe, a zip line and rope swings.

Play rangers patrol both parks - which are for children aged five to 15 - and are fully qualified with CRB checks.

Parents already have to 'register' their child on arrival so staff have their contact details in the event of an accident. But now only those who have been selected for CRB vetting by the council can enter the sites.

Mayor Dorothy Thornhill argued the council was merely enforcing government policy at the play areas.

'Sadly, in today's climate, you can't have adults walking around unchecked in a children's playground and the adventure playground is not a meeting place for adults,' she said.

But the Tories claimed the row showed the Government's ' heavy- handed' approach to safeguarding was 'completely out of control'.

Holy crap! Mamby-pamby uptight, moron, left-wing, nutjobs. This is what we look forward to if we allow the left-wingers to take a stronger foothold here in the US??? I can completely see our current administration doing something like this. Am I wrong?

quote:

Holy crap! Mamby-pamby uptight, moron, left-wing, nutjobs.

This is what we look forward to if we allow the left-wingers to take a stronger foothold here in the US??? I can completely see our current administration doing something like this. Am I wrong?

The people I would most naturally feel empathy for are also those most directly responsible for their own condition; as others have accurately pointed out.

Possibly the worst of the breed are those people have emotionally packed it in with an "oh well. That's it. I'm moving to the United States" attitude.

I guess they feel freedom is free. But no one needs friends like that.



Regardless of the omnipresence of contemptible persons, there are many like minded individuals fighting hard to restore freedoms in their country.

Don't get me wrong.

We have our own battle ongoing here in Canada. Just this week, the Municipality of Toronto has taken to sweeping gun seizures as a counter to Federal debate on the future of gun control.

Like some US cities, Toronto's Mayoral office believes it can exercise autonomy over Federal jurisdiction to suit their local interests. Normally, I'm pretty ok with the idea of less Federal interference. Right up to the point where it starts squashing local rights. I'm not praying for a squashing of that action. I'm writing and petitioning and demanding it.

Meanwhile, as a citizen of a commonwealth nation I cannot ignore the fight also occurring in Britain. So I remind myself that they do not do so from the comfort of existing freedom. Some would say the fight is already over.

I'd say they haven't read their history.

quote:

Originally posted by sprint:

quote:

Originally posted by BJEC1248:

quote:

Originally posted by sprint:
Violent crime is rampant there. Much like South Africa, people with an option to leave are getting out while they still can.

where are they going?

We have a large community of them here in our professional class.

My doctor is black South African. My friend's business partner is white South African. My wife's former employers or a dental lab are South African. That's all anecdotal, of course. But in a town of 60,000 you also meet all their friends.

The story is generally the same.

I meant the Canadians--where are THEY going?

West. To provinces pro conservative and pro gun.

Just put this sign up....

lol - that's awesome.

Both my neighbors are rednecks though. Guaranteed, I'd have to put it a few doors down.

Though the end results might be ironically funny.

To some extent, we see a similar pattern here in the US. Those intent upon committing crimes do not choose the police station as their crime scene; they prefer "unarmed victim zones" (aka: Gun Free Zones) like schools, post offices, shopping malls, etc.

Here in the US burglary of occupied dwellings is a fairly uncommon occurance. In other countries having stringent firearms laws, such offenses are much more common.

Predators seldom target the strong and capable, prefering the weak and infirm. Criminals seldom intentionally target the person likely to fight back either.

The next major push for gun control in the US? I fully expect burglars, muggers, rapists and others to protest the "unsafe workplace conditions" they are forced to operate in, where intended victims might just defend themselves!

Likely results of the reported information on the US gun control debate? No results likely; the elitist liberals pushing for gun control have made up their minds and will not be influenced by facts or logic.