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Nickels' gun ban assailed
Most speakers at public hearing say mayor's plan won't keep parks safe
By KATHY MULADY
P-I REPORTER

Mayor Greg Nickels' plan to ban firearms from city buildings and parks might seem like a pretty small target, but to gun rights advocates the move is a dangerous step toward wresting gun legislation away from the state and giving more power to cities.

But for those hoping for more gun control, the Nickels proposal provides hope.

The two sides met Monday night for a public hearing at City Hall.

Some called the proposal -- an administrative rule that would restrict firearms on city-owned property -- a common-sense regulation to keep Seattle safer. Others noted that criminals don't follow the rules.


Most of the speakers at the City Hall hearing opposed the ban, which was prompted by a Folklife Festival shooting.
There were more than 70 speakers, the vast majority of whom opposed Nickels' idea.

Representatives from the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle, where a gunman shot workers two years ago, were among the first speakers, including Cheryl Stumbo, who was shot and has had 10 surgeries to repair the damage.

"I was shot with a legally purchased gun," she said. "I definitely would feel safer knowing guns are prohibited from city property."

Cassie Wallender spoke out against Nickels' plan.

"I love Seattle. If it were a person, I would marry it, but we are in a little spat right now," she said. "This is public property, this is all of our land, property we bought and paid for. You are discouraging law-abiding families from participating in their community events. The citizens are the city."

Nickels called for banning guns on city property after a shooting at the Northwest Folklife Festival on May 24 that injured several people. The 22-year-old suspect had a concealed-weapons permit, despite a history of drug abuse and mental health problems.

Although Nickels' proposal is an administrative one, anyone caught bringing a gun to a city park or building could be ticketed or arrested for criminal trespassing.

State Attorney General Rob McKenna issued a decision in October stating that cities cannot pre-empt state gun laws. McKenna said the mayor's proposed restrictions would violate state law blocking cities from enacting gun rules.

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Heads of the biggest departments listened to speakers, but "where is Mayor Nickels?" asked speakers.

Mark Taff, with the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, based in Bellevue, handed out buttons for participants with a red line slashed through Nickels' name.

"I hope this proposed rule is shot down," said a gay man who wants to be able to defend his partner if they are victims of a hate crime in a city park.

Bill Murray, a screenwriter and firearms instructor, noted that he came to the hearing without his gun. He said the gun prohibition will marginally increase safety for residents but make the city much safer for criminals.

"If I am a bad guy, I am always going to have a gun," he said.

Don Clifton called Nickels' idea a "kneejerk reaction to an anomaly that happened at Folklife."

"Those who see no need for guns, I hope that bubble for you is never burst."

One impassioned female speaker said: "Criminals do not follow laws, how many times do you have to hear that?

"Criminals will walk into City Hall and shoot up a storm and no one here will have a gun to protect themselves. This is our right, and no one can take it away."

However, the Mayor's Office argues that private property owners have the right to prohibit weapons in their buildings and on their land, and the city should have the same right.

Already, guns are prohibited in City Hall unless the person carrying the firearm has a concealed weapons permit. Guns also are banned at schools, jails and the courthouse.

The proposed rule would not apply to city streets and public sidewalks, except when they are being used for special events; motor vehicle parking garages and parking lots; city property leased and occupied for residential purposes; and the Roger Dahl Rifle Training Range.

Gun-control advocates would like to see more regulation in the hands of city lawmakers, who often are more inclined to create restrictions than their state and federal counterparts.

In the last few weeks, the Mayor's Office has received dozens of letters and e-mails about the proposed gun ban on city property, mostly asking him to drop the idea.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/392199_gunban16.html?source=rss

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"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. " - Rosie O'Donnell

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The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

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Day is never finished...massa got me workin'...someday, massa set me free...

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Originally posted by law_dawg07:
Idiot.

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The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

RCW 9.41.290 (emphasis added)

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"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. " - Rosie O'Donnell

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Originally posted by Psychobastard:
Pffft... The pompous ass is effectively above the law. Unless the state takes action he's going to get away with it. It will be interesting to see if Seattle PD tries to enforce this in violation of state law. I look forward to teh massive law suits. Really I do. I honestly hope this fiasco costs the city of Seattle millions!

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Day is never finished...massa got me workin'...someday, massa set me free...

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Originally posted by law_dawg07:

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Originally posted by Psychobastard:
Pffft... The pompous ass is effectively above the law. Unless the state takes action he's going to get away with it. It will be interesting to see if Seattle PD tries to enforce this in violation of state law. I look forward to teh massive law suits. Really I do. I honestly hope this fiasco costs the city of Seattle millions!

I'm not exactly sure what it is he's "getting away with." He's purported to pass an illegal law, which is therefore void.

It might make him feel good, but he's actually accomplished nothing.

Like you, though, I'm a sadistic SOB, so I truly hope someone tries to enforce it, so the courts can smack this pompous ass back down where he belongs.

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"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. " - Rosie O'Donnell

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Originally posted by Psychobastard:

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Originally posted by law_dawg07:

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Originally posted by Psychobastard:
Pffft... The pompous ass is effectively above the law. Unless the state takes action he's going to get away with it. It will be interesting to see if Seattle PD tries to enforce this in violation of state law. I look forward to teh massive law suits. Really I do. I honestly hope this fiasco costs the city of Seattle millions!

I'm not exactly sure what it is he's "getting away with." He's purported to pass an illegal law, which is therefore void.

It might make him feel good, but he's actually accomplished nothing.

Like you, though, I'm a sadistic SOB, so I truly hope someone tries to enforce it, so the courts can smack this pompous ass back down where he belongs.

The law may be technically void... but if a single gun owner is arrested or fined & then forced to spend their own money defending themselves, he's been successful. If gun owners are intimidated & prevented from legal carry due to fear of being arrested or fined... then he's been successful.

One would expect setting judges to deny the city's arguement... but I wouldn't want to be the individual who tried to challenge this on my own dime. Even if you eventually win, without the states support or the support of a class-action suit, you could be financially ruined.

I suspect that Nickels is counting on the intimidation factor here. I've heard from some SPD officers who've said that they wouldn't enforce it... but that's another gamble.

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Originally posted by Psychobastard:
I suspect that Nickels is counting on the intimidation factor here.

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Day is never finished...massa got me workin'...someday, massa set me free...

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Originally posted by christuan:
No SPD officer I know will enforce this one, but I'm speaking for myself only and not as a representative of any department.

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"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. " - Rosie O'Donnell

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There's that term common sense gun control again.

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Originally posted by stangboy555:
You would think that the last thing a person bringing a gun somewhere to shoot people would be worried about getting arrested for criminal trespass.

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Originally posted by G-Man:
You're brandishing dangerous logic there. No place for logical thought at that hearing.

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Day is never finished...massa got me workin'...someday, massa set me free...

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11-72 Firearms and fireworks.

Firearms, fireworks, bows, arrows and sling- shots are prohibited in any park. It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearms, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or carry any firearms or to shoot or fire any airgun, bows, and arrows, BB gun or use any slingshot in any park. The director of parks may issue permits for use of safe fireworks in specified areas where fire hazards will not be increased and where the use of the fireworks will be under proper supervision and are permitted pursuant to FWCC 8-141. Fireworks displays may be permitted by the director as permitted pursuant to FWCC 8-141. This section shall not prevent establishment in any park of a properly designed archery course, upon receipt or permission from the director. (Ord. No. 91-82, § 1(11), 1-8-91)

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Day is never finished...massa got me workin'...someday, massa set me free...

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Originally posted by law_dawg07:
^^^ Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle. You're absolutely right. From the Federal Way Municipal Code:

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11-72 Firearms and fireworks.

Firearms, fireworks, bows, arrows and sling- shots are prohibited in any park. It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearms, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or carry any firearms or to shoot or fire any airgun, bows, and arrows, BB gun or use any slingshot in any park. The director of parks may issue permits for use of safe fireworks in specified areas where fire hazards will not be increased and where the use of the fireworks will be under proper supervision and are permitted pursuant to FWCC 8-141. Fireworks displays may be permitted by the director as permitted pursuant to FWCC 8-141. This section shall not prevent establishment in any park of a properly designed archery course, upon receipt or permission from the director. (Ord. No. 91-82, § 1(11), 1-8-91)

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"I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel. " - Rosie O'Donnell