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Routine traffic stop, officer wants to disarm lawfully carrying civilian Login/Join 
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Picture of swage
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I've been pulled over four times while carrying. Twice for no front license plate, ahd twice for speeding. I had the front bumper cover replaced and the shop didn't put the license plate back on. I wasn't going to take a drill to a $2000 repair job and it took a few months to get back to the shop for them to do it. Ohio is a "must inform" state. I will say that each time the officers have been professional and some even asked about what I was carrying.

I'm aware that my CCW comes up when they run my plate. But I think informing the officer reinforces in their mind that you're one of the "good guys." Only once was I written a ticket and that was for a seat belt violation. I was initially pulled over for driving 78 MPH in a 60 MPH speed zone. So I considered the seat belt ticket acceptable as the fine would've been much worse with the speeding violation and added points to my license.
 
Posts: 1483 | Location: Ohio | Registered: October 17, 2007Report This Post
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As Kevin mentioned, my cc, issued in my state, WV is noted via drivers license, my index finger prints also. The law knows when they run the license what the deal is.

It's best to tell the lawman what's up. I'd like that courtesy if I was in their shoes.
 
Posts: 2224 | Location: west 'by god' virginia | Registered: May 30, 2009Report This Post
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Picture of Climber211
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As much as I hate to say it, sometimes you lose to the battle to win the war. I'd let him disarm me, let him conduct his business, wish a good night and god speed, then file a complaint the next day with the Chief. Sucks I know, but you take one for the team so the next guy does not get asked (assuming the Chief corrects).
 
Posts: 33 | Location: Great State of KY | Registered: March 11, 2011Report This Post
Music's over turn
out the lights
Picture of David W
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I was pulled for speeding a couple years ago. I informed him per NC laws and he asked to have my weapon. My wife was in the passenger seat and he was on her side so I was very careful to not point the weapon towards her when handing it to him. (this is why I think its dumb idea to ask a legal CCW holder for their weapon) What is the first thing he does? Points the gun directly at her and walks away.

When he came back on my side of the car I told him what he had done he did not seem to care. So I ask him politely what is the law about me giving him my weapon. He went straight on the defensive saying if I ask for your weapon you better give it to me. I said politely, I never said I would not give you my weapon I just wanted clarification on the law. He was pissed I was asking questions tossed my weapon in the back floor board and said is there anything else?

We called and spoke to the SGT on duty. He was very nice and said he was sorry the Trooper was rude and wanted to know if we wanted to file formal charges. We said no, he said he would personally have a talk with the Trooper and remind him that he is lucky folks like us have our CCW. And also to remind him their were plenty of other people that would want his job.

I never minded him asking for my weapon my problem was him swiping my wife, not caring about doing it and his attitude when I asked simple questions that should get simple answers.


David W.

Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles
 
Posts: 2488 | Location: Winston-Salem, N.C. | Registered: May 30, 2005Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Climber211:
As much as I hate to say it, sometimes you lose to the battle to win the war. I'd let him disarm me, let him conduct his business, wish a good night and god speed, then file a complaint the next day with the Chief. Sucks I know, but you take one for the team so the next guy does not get asked (assuming the Chief corrects).


Just out of curiosity's sake, what are you going to complain about?


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Posts: 29382 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
Picture of RHINOWSO
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As with most things in life, it depends on the professionalism / courtesy displayed by both the officer and civilian being disarmed.




read what you want
watch what you want
play what you want
think what you want
say what you want
 
Posts: 34229 | Location: Around | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
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Rarely did I disarm someone I had pulled over. The weapon was in a holster and safe, why would I tempt fate?
 
Posts: 4480 | Registered: April 02, 2011Report This Post
'Murica
Picture of szuppo
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quote:
Originally posted by chansen92:
quote:
Originally posted by szuppo:
It's 50/50 on whether I inform or not. As far as the officer wanting to remove my weapon during the stop, that's his/her choice and if it speeds up the process have at it and send me on my merry way.
You had better reconsider your position on informing the officer if you are driving in MI.; it is the law that you inform him at once one way or the other. If you live in Mi. he will know before he gets out of his car cause it is on his computer.



Negative. I carry under the authority of HR218 or LEOSA and nothing is tied to my plates.
Like I said, if it makes the interaction quicker and the Officer feel more comfortable then have at it.


Gun goes in the holster, Ego goes in the safe.


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Posts: 3106 | Location: Canfield, Ohio | Registered: October 31, 2004Report This Post
DYNAMITE
THE PASSES!
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quote:
Originally posted by szuppo:
Negative. I carry under the authority of HR218 or LEOSA and nothing is tied to my plates.
For the proles our concealed carry permit is linked to our DL and a dispatcher can run the owner the plate is listed to.



The right to keep and bear arms, military arms, shall not be infringed -- period!
 
Posts: 10723 | Registered: May 19, 2006Report This Post
'Murica
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I know that.


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Posts: 3106 | Location: Canfield, Ohio | Registered: October 31, 2004Report This Post
Who else?
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I do what the officer instructs me to do.

If I feel it is dangerous, or may incur some miscommunication, I make sure we both understand that I'm going to comply - but only in a safe manner. I'm not going to get argumentative or belligerent. It's their call, not mine.

In my experience here in Arizona, officers simply do not ask. Not long ago, I placed a 'man with a gun' call, who discharged it in a parking lot after a fistfight. Officers arrived after perp left.

The officer asked me to describe what happened. At the point I told him the perp had stopped and looked at me, gun in hand, he asked me what I'd have done if the perp had pointed his gun at me. I told him that I'd have killed him. Not the best answer in retrospect, but the officer didn't ask me how, if I was armed, or if I had a firearm. Didn't even look to my hip. He knew I was armed - and simply didn't care. His response?

"Good answer."

I love Arizona.
 
Posts: 1825 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Report This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
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quote:
Originally posted by recoatlift:

It's best to tell the lawman what's up. I'd like that courtesy if I was in their shoes.


Speak for yourself. CHP holders are not "flagged" here, so why the hell would I turn a no-biggie traffic stop into one of these comedies of errors we see here?

If they ask I'll be honset, but I'll be damned if I volunteer that information. The less time this takes, the sooner I can go about my business and the sooner the cop can go back to fleecing the other commuters.
 
Posts: 3870 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Report This Post
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I think most people here are missing the point. If your state does not require you to notify the law at once that you are carrying or not carrying that's fine but when you are in a state that does require you to notify the law that you ARE carrying you better do it. It is your responsibility to know the laws in whatever state you are in. If you or your car was searched and a gun was found you could be in some hot water. In MI. you are required to notify regardless of what state you are from. It's just common sense folks.
 
Posts: 1539 | Location: owosso,Mi. USA | Registered: August 18, 2002Report This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
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quote:
Originally posted by chansen92:
I think most people here are missing the point. If your state does not require you to notify the law at once that you are carrying or not carrying that's fine but when you are in a state that does require you to notify the law that you ARE carrying you better do it. It is your responsibility to know the laws in whatever state you are in. If you or your car was searched and a gun was found you could be in some hot water. In MI. you are required to notify regardless of what state you are from. It's just common sense folks.


Lets break it down!

Free State? yes? Keep your mouth shut if your time is valuable.
no? You have to inform, prole, no choice. Deal with it.
 
Posts: 3870 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by counselor:
I have been stopped while carrying and I had my hands on the wheel and advised the officer I was carrying. I handed the weapon to him as he instructed. Everything went smoothly.


The 2 times I've been stopped I handed my permit first and then the rest of my documents. First was a rookie officer that got really nervous but his training officer was right behind him and told him to relax and stay observant.

2nd officer just said don't touch yours and he wouldn't touch his.

I would be VERY reluctant to touch a firearm during a stop even if ordered to. I think I would tell the officer I did not want to touch my firearm and that I was ok with him getting me out of the car and securing me in any manner that made him feel safe. Then he could remove the weapon and secure it as well.

Mark
 
Posts: 3811 | Location: middle Tennessee | Registered: October 28, 2008Report This Post
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Last time I was stopped while carrying I didn't yet have my CCW. The officer asked me to check my pistol, and picked it up off the dash and swung the cylinder open.
When he brought it back, he handed me the revolver and as he was getting ready to leave, the last thing he did was hand me the shells back.
He did tell me that I didn't need to carry around a loaded gun, to which I replied that an unloaded gun wasn't much use. He grinned, said "No, I guess not" and walked away.
No drama, no complaints, and no ticket. (My truck had no tail lights, thanks to a faulty ground wire and an idiot for a repairman Smile )




Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago.
 
Posts: 2501 | Location: Morganton, NC | Registered: December 31, 2005Report This Post
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I'm in a "duty to report" state and if stopped and I was sitting on my wallet and my gun were on my R hip, there is absolutely no way in the world I would remove the gun if the officer asked. Not a chance in hell.

If I were to pull a gun out of my R hip his partner will see me through the passenger window pulling a gun, yell "Gun, gun gun!" and I will end up having a very bad day.

Instead, I'd ask the officer to disarm me and I don't care if my hands are on the hood of the car or not but I'd let him dictate how to do this. My hands will be at 10-2 with my DL, CCW permit and registration in hand when he walks up but if he asks me to disarm myself, I will politely decline and comply with something else that doesn't put him or me at risk.

I don't want any of us to get hurt, let the encounter finish and we all go our merry way. If I did something wrong then I'd admit I owned the ticket or if I didn't do anything wrong, I'd graciously accept it and then tell the judge at my court date.

No need to get stupid or stop thinking at a traffic stop.
 
Posts: 2679 | Location: "You can't just go to Walmart with a gift card and get a new brother." Janice Serrano | Registered: May 03, 2005Report This Post
Do No Harm,
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This was my opinion 2 years, almost to the day, ago...and it still stands:

quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Any officer who asks for a gun from a CHPer for no other reason than to possess it and run its serial number is a retard. If the gun is secure and the person has a permit we are in homeostasis. No need to screw up a good thing by playing with loaded guns on the side of the road if there is no articulable reason to believe the "and dangerous" part of that phrase.

Any cop that makes that demand while threatening to arrest if the person doesn't comply is likely outside of his authority in most states.

I have taken many many guns. But absolutely none of them from people with carry permits just to "check serial numbers" or so I can feel safe because the sun isn't shining bright enough. Simple rule--if you pull your gun out I'm very likely to shoot you in the head or die trying. Just leave the damn thing be. If you've got a CHP you are 99% probably not worth me even getting out of my car. I've got plenty of shitheads to attend to.



And the courts agree (US 4th Circuit of Appeals, with a dissension):

US v Robinson

quote:
The fourth circuit court’s opinion reviewed the case law on stop and frisk beginning with Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), which first recognized an officer’s authority to do so. The court noted that an officer may frisk a person who has been legally stopped only if the officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person is armed and presently dangerous to the officer or others. In this case, the defendant did not contest the initial stop for the seat belt violation, which in any event the court said was justified by Whren v. United States, 517 U.S. 806 (1996) (Fourth Amendment uses objective test to assess stop regardless of officer’s motivation for stop). The defendant also did not challenge whether there was reasonable suspicion that he was armed, choosing not to contest the reliability of the anonymous tip for that purpose. Thus, the only issue before the court was whether there was reasonable suspicion that the defendant was dangerous to justify the frisk, for which the anonymous tip was critical.

The court said that if a state’s law tightly regulated the concealed carry of firearms, permitting it only in rare cases, then a concealed gun remains a strong indication of criminal activity. In those circumstances, there is “precious little space” between armed and dangerous, and an officer may be justified in conducting a frisk on reasonable suspicion that a suspect is concealing a gun. But, the court noted, times have changed, and it decides this case against a different legal background. None of the conduct reported in the anonymous tip is currently illegal under West Virginia law, where it is legal to carry a gun in public and to carry a concealed weapon with a permit. And permits are relatively easy to obtain in West Virginia. So today in West Virginia there is no reason to think that public gun possession is unusual, or that a person carrying or concealing a weapon during a traffic stop is anything but a law-abiding citizen who poses no danger to law enforcement officers.

The court stated that as conduct once the province of lawbreakers becomes increasingly common place, courts must reevaluate what counts as suspicious or dangerous behavior under Terry concerning public possession of guns. The court reviewed one of its cases [United States v. Black, 707 F.3d 531 (4th Cir. 2013) (if lawful to openly display firearms under state law, then public possession of gun is no longer suspicious to authorize Terry stop)] as well as cases from three other federal circuit courts. It then concluded that in states like West Virginia, which broadly allow public possession of firearms, reasonable suspicion that a person is armed does not by itself support reasonable suspicion that the person is dangerous for Terry purposes.

The court noted that several states—though not West Virginia—have responded to the concern that recent developments concerning legal gun possession have made the work of law enforcement officers more dangerous as well as more difficult. These states have enacted “duty to inform” laws, which require those carrying concealed weapons to disclose that fact to law enforcement if they are stopped. The court listed statutes of five states, including North Carolina’s: G.S. 14-415.11. [Author’s note: This statute, a violation of which is punishable as an infraction under G.S. 14-415.21(a), provides that a person must carry the concealed handgun permit with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, and must disclose to an officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and must display both the permit and proper identification on an officer’s request.] Of particular relevance to North Carolina and the other states, the court then stated: “And where the police have reasonable suspicion that a person is armed, that person’s failure to so inform the police, as required by law, may well give rise to a reasonable suspicion of dangerousness.”

The court stated that even a lawfully possessed firearm can pose a threat to officer safety, so the court must consider whether a frisk was authorized in light not only of reasonable suspicion that the defendant was armed but also of the surrounding circumstances. The court rejected as insufficient reasonable suspicion of dangerousness the government’s offer of two additional factors: (1) the defendant’s failure to answer when the officer asked him if he had a gun; and (2) the defendant’s presence in a high-crime area. As to factor (1), the court recognized under a different legal regime (i.e., the five states, including North Carolina, discussed above), different reasonable inferences could be drawn from a failure to answer an officer’s question about a gun. As to factor (2), the court stated when public gun possession is legal, high-crime areas are precisely the setting in which we should expect to see law-abiding citizens carrying guns who present no threat to officers; there is more, not less reason to arm oneself lawfully for self-defense in a high-crime area. The court concluded that Terry did not authorize the officers to conduct a frisk of the defendant.

There was a dissenting opinion, which would have upheld the district court’s denial of the suppression motion. It stated that the armed-and-dangerous appellation is a unitary concept, and no further evidence of dangerousness is required to justify a frisk once an officer reasonably suspects that a person who had been lawfully stopped for criminal activity or enforcement of traffic laws is armed.


Some of these cops you guys talk about wanting to take every gun on traffic stops are going to make some rich people in the 4th district's area.


-------------------------------

You forgot:
RIUTINMAYFGIB road is unpaved there is no map and your fuel gauge is busted
-Georgeair
 
Posts: 8685 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Report This Post
Get on the fifty!
Picture of Andyb
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Regardless if he wants it, he will have to remove it. Not forcefully mind you, just no way in hell I'm reaching for or touching a weapon during a stop whether he tells me to or not.




When in doubt, pinky out.
 
Posts: 2656 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: November 07, 2008Report This Post
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i would just comply with the Officers request. He is the law and if he does something against the law, it can be dealt with later. Why put yourself in defiance of an officers request? He does represent the law and its a stretch to think this will ever happen unless you commit a crime.
 
Posts: 41 | Location: PA | Registered: May 06, 2013Report This Post
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