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Picture of Mainspring
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In WI, we don't have to notify law enforcement. However, in MI, you do (and I spend a fair amount of time in MI).

In either case, I would always be truthful with an officer. I would also comply with their wishes, even if they were not in strict accordance with the law. I'd much rather not escalate a situation and then take it up with their supervisor(s) at a later time than to become confrontational.

I look at it like this...

If they want to secure a weapon, then they're probably already on edge and concerned about their personal safety (even if it's not justified in my eyes). Why make that situation worse?

The only slight caveat is that I carry AIWB. Before surrendering my weapon, I would try to explain in detail (calmly and with my hands clearly visible at all times):

1) That I have a valid CCW permit.
2) That I am armed with a [fill in the blank], which is loaded.
3) That the firearm is holstered and located at approximately 12:30 on my belt line.
4) That I am happy to comply with the officer's commands, but that I would like him to take into consideration that it is pointed near my groin and/or femoral artery.
 
Posts: 3058 | Registered: November 04, 2003Report This Post
Ice age heat wave,
cant complain.
Picture of MikeGLI
posted Hide Post
Both options of having the LEO disarm me or me handing it over make me itch. I'm sure it's unlikely, but say the primary asks you to hand over your firearm and the cover officer sees you drawing a gun but can't hear the dialogue, yikes Eek . I'd like to think the communication between the officers is there, but who really knows. On the other hand, not all cops are gun people (not all gun people are smart for that matter), I'd hate to be shot in the ass while being disarmed on the side of the road.

The one time I've been pulled over I notified, the officer asked where it was, and that was the end of it.




NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 7638 | Location: Orlando, Florida | Registered: July 12, 2005Report This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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As already mentioned...in Alaska, we have a duty to inform.

That's why my license, registration, and insurance cards are nowhere near any of my guns. When I get into the truck, my wallet goes into the little cubby under my radio. Registration and insurance cards are clipped to my visor. That way, all can be reached in plain sight calmly....and I'm not fumbling around in the vehicle prior to LEO interaction. Something mentioned here...and a very bad idea.

Attitude is everything, and interactions with any of the 95% of LEO's which are highly professional, will be routine. If you are nervous...you're going to make them nervous. I feel the same way when I interact with people I can tell are armed. If they look/act nervous...it makes me really nervous.

I've never been involved in a traffic stop in Alaska, my interactions with LEO's in Alaska were always face-to-face on or near my property. Everytime I was armed, and twice it was a bit tense. Once, a neighbor had told the state troopers I was armed and shooting at their house...another time I met a state trooper at my gate as he was rounding the corner in the middle of the night, pistol to face. BOTH TIMES the troopers handled the events professionally, picked up that I was calm, and neither disarmed me. Amazingly. Both times, they recognized that the situation had called for my actions, and I handled myself and my weapon safely. I could go into more detail...but it's been said before...both times I shared the stories here when they happened.

Now in Oregon....LE contacts were different, and I found myself in multiple interactions with LEO's on the side of the road. Once due to my own fault, traffic/speeding wise, the others due to circumstances beyond my control (accidents and a false police report, by a LEO BTW). I wasn't always armed, as I didn't always have that right in Oregon (CHL process takes time, and is for residents only). I'll say this much...the larger departments handled themselves as I would expect, with a ton of professionalism. No complaints. The smaller departments...did not. I filed a complaint once, it was lost.

The one time I've been disarmed by LEO's...was from the Air Force OSI. In my own home, off base. Actually, I was in an armed stand-off with them...as they failed to identify themselves when they entered my home in civilian clothes. Because I was young, wanted to live (obviously outgunned), and wasn't sure quite what the UCMJ said about the subject....I followed orders and surrendered my firearm when my 1st Sergeant showed up. Those pricks went through the whole house and inventoried every firearm in the place (2 roommates). Basically, one of the roommates had pissed hot because she took her boyfriends prescription pain pills for bad menstrual cramps. They seized all the prescription pills in the house...including mine. Long story...they ran all the guns, took lots of pictures...and when it came to them wanting to take the guns with them my Shirt stepped in and called our commander who put a stop to the idiocy. He helped us to file complaints following the incident, I have no idea if they went anywhere or not.

I had a hard time dealing with (after the fact)the fact that I had almost shot two people that night. I was barely 21, barely had my concealed carry license...and hadn't really been involved in a situation that close and personal before.

That's why I have such a hard time with no-knock warrants.....good people die unnecessarily. They didn't know anyone was home, and had used my roommates key to enter my home...but fumbled enough to obviously not live there. There was a trick to the lock...that people who knew...belonged. They shouldered the door.... Jeeze...re-living it all now again. Still amazes me how close they came to dying...and likely me shortly after. They didn't announce themselves, didn't have badges or uniforms showing....I just saw guns on hips.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagon, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Posts: 12201 | Location: On the Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Report This Post
DYNAMITE
THE PASSES!
Picture of Solitar
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I suspect that most LEOs are familiar with only their issue firearms, the previously issued firearms, and maybe a few of their personal firearms
and they are not familiar enough with the other firearms they may encounter on a traffic stop to safely disarm, unload and safe those firearms.
and while they are two-handed fumbling with an unfamiliar firearm, are they aware of what other threats they face -- such as passing vehicles.

Nope. They should not be disarming a lawfully carrying civilian.



The right to keep and bear arms, military arms, shall not be infringed -- period!
 
Posts: 10723 | Registered: May 19, 2006Report This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
Picture of chongosuerte
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Solitar:
I suspect that most LEOs are familiar with only their issue firearms, the previously issued firearms, and maybe a few of their personal firearms
and they are not familiar enough with the other firearms they may encounter on a traffic stop to safely disarm, unload and safe those firearms.
and while they are two-handed fumbling with an unfamiliar firearm, are they aware of what other threats they face -- such as passing vehicles.

Nope. They should not be disarming a lawfully carrying civilian.


I agree with this. I consider myself very familiar with handguns. Extremely, even, with most. I have still found a couple in the years on badguys that weren't a type I had manipulated before. Many officers don't know anything about guns other than what they carry.


-------------------------------

You forgot:
RIUTINMAYFGIB road is unpaved there is no map and your fuel gauge is busted
-Georgeair
 
Posts: 8557 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Report This Post
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Red and Black
Picture of Snidely Whiplash
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I will follow instructions, but the officer WILL pay for any accidental damage that comes from handling my loaded weapon. It is inherently UNSAFE to publically handle a loaded weapon (especially one which the officer is not familiar with).

The officer/department WILL pay for any damage/scratches to said weapon after he takes custody of it.

The officer/department WILL NOT set the metal weapon on my new car. If said weapon IS PLACED on my new vehicle, they MUST willing to pay for FACTORY fresh paint resulting from the slightest paint damage.

"To serve and PROTECT" means my property.


___________________________________________________________________________
Give None/Take None
 
Posts: 4695 | Location: Up Shit Creek (it's better tha DOWN it) | Registered: October 03, 2010Report This Post
Member
Picture of Steve in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by Snidely Whiplash:
I will follow instructions, but the officer WILL pay for any accidental damage that comes from handling my loaded weapon. It is inherently UNSAFE to publically handle a loaded weapon (especially one which the officer is not familiar with).

The officer/department WILL pay for any damage/scratches to said weapon after he takes custody of it.

The officer/department WILL NOT set the metal weapon on my new car. If said weapon IS PLACED on my new vehicle, they MUST willing to pay for FACTORY fresh paint resulting from the slightest paint damage.

"To serve and PROTECT" means my property.


How are you going to prove the claim that the officer scratched your firearm? Are you going to take pictures of it as you hand it over?

As for the paint job, I guess there are no other marks or nicks in your vehicle? I can think of any number of things that can cause nicks in the paint. You will not be getting a whole new paint job because of a little nick.


Steve
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
 
Posts: 3087 | Location: Northeast PA | Registered: June 05, 2000Report This Post
Support Your Local
Red and Black
Picture of Snidely Whiplash
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve in PA:
quote:
Originally posted by Snidely Whiplash:
I will follow instructions, but the officer WILL pay for any accidental damage that comes from handling my loaded weapon. It is inherently UNSAFE to publically handle a loaded weapon (especially one which the officer is not familiar with).

The officer/department WILL pay for any damage/scratches to said weapon after he takes custody of it.

The officer/department WILL NOT set the metal weapon on my new car. If said weapon IS PLACED on my new vehicle, they MUST willing to pay for FACTORY fresh paint resulting from the slightest paint damage.

"To serve and PROTECT" means my property.


How are you going to prove the claim that the officer scratched your firearm? Are you going to take pictures of it as you hand it over?

As for the paint job, I guess there are no other marks or nicks in your vehicle? I can think of any number of things that can cause nicks in the paint. You will not be getting a whole new paint job because of a little nick.


I take a pic of any pistol I carry, just before leaving the house.
My car has 1400 miles on it. As it's only the second new vehicle, I've ever bought I plan on keeping it PERFECT. Nicks happen on the front bumper, SCRATCHES on the hood/roof from an object are obvious.

The camera mounted inside the vehicle is for proving someone jacked my car up. If it's OK to set a metal object on a new car, no doubt the mayor would not mind if I asked to set a pipe wrench on his new Cadillac.

This city gives citizens ANYTHING they want...especially around election time. I got proof (recording of a citizen actually scamming me/the city (he thought he hung up after leaving a voicemail). It was election year and damn near the entire street got new driveway approaches. $200k in wasted revenue....to keep voters happy and politicians in office with the other good ol' boys.


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Give None/Take None
 
Posts: 4695 | Location: Up Shit Creek (it's better tha DOWN it) | Registered: October 03, 2010Report This Post
Support Your Local
Red and Black
Picture of Snidely Whiplash
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Steve in PA:
quote:
Originally posted by Snidely Whiplash:
I will follow instructions, but the officer WILL pay for any accidental damage that comes from handling my loaded weapon. It is inherently UNSAFE to publically handle a loaded weapon (especially one which the officer is not familiar with).

The officer/department WILL pay for any damage/scratches to said weapon after he takes custody of it.

The officer/department WILL NOT set the metal weapon on my new car. If said weapon IS PLACED on my new vehicle, they MUST willing to pay for FACTORY fresh paint resulting from the slightest paint damage.

"To serve and PROTECT" means my property.


How are you going to prove the claim that the officer scratched your firearm? Are you going to take pictures of it as you hand it over?

As for the paint job, I guess there are no other marks or nicks in your vehicle? I can think of any number of things that can cause nicks in the paint. You will not be getting a whole new paint job because of a little nick


As I stated about this city before: if the dealer says the paint cannot be repaired to a factory perfect match, I get an entire paint job. There are hundreds of cases on file where people were given new, you name it. 85k population is a big little town with all the corruption that goes with it. EVERY employee with more than 10 years of service knows enough to fill a library.

Retired folks getting their pension from the state municipal fund have nothing to lose, only get fair treatment like everyone else.

Besides, no local/state LEO has ever wanted to disarm me. We must inform and they thank you and just ask where it is. I sometimes have to reply, "which one"?


___________________________________________________________________________
Give None/Take None
 
Posts: 4695 | Location: Up Shit Creek (it's better tha DOWN it) | Registered: October 03, 2010Report This Post
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Picture of ATT
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I have been in that situation many times. The FIRST thing I tell the policeman is "Sir, I have a firearm concealed on my right hip. What do you want me to do?"
I also always make sure my hands are on the steering wheel. Some of the police have asked me to step out, so they can temporarily secure my weapon. Some have simply told me to keep my hands on the steering wheel, while they call in my info. EVERY TIME, the Anchorage Police, have been professional and courteous.

A little respect goes a LONG way, with most interactions with the police.


-------------------------
Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry, for anger resteth in the bosom of fools. Ecc 7:9

SIG556 SWAT * P226
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Posts: 605 | Location: Alaska | Registered: November 14, 2009Report This Post
Banned
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A few of my ridding buddies are police officers and I've known them for many years. One of the things that I know about cops is that they deal with a lot of shitty people...all day long.

I get it, you got pulled over but you are not a shit bag, you are one of the good guys! How are they supposed to know that? you just broke the law...that is why you got pulled over.

Honestly, if I got pulled over for breaking the law and the cop asked me to do jumping jacks while apologizing for being a dumbass I would do it with a smile.
 
Posts: 142 | Location: Oregon | Registered: May 24, 2014Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rgrad80:
A few of my ridding buddies are police officers and I've known them for many years. One of the things that I know about cops is that they deal with a lot of shitty people...all day long.

I get it, you got pulled over but you are not a shit bag, you are one of the good guys! How are they supposed to know that? you just broke the law...that is why you got pulled over.

Honestly, if I got pulled over for breaking the law and the cop asked me to do jumping jacks while apologizing for being a dumbass I would do it with a smile.


I'm not signing up for exercise; however I agree with everything else. Smile
 
Posts: 1512 | Registered: September 11, 2009Report This Post
Spread the Disease
Picture of flesheatingvirus
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quote:
Originally posted by Mainspring:
...the firearm is holstered and located at approximately 12:30 on my belt line....I would like him to take into consideration that it is pointed near my groin and/or femoral artery.


You're ok with carrying like that? Eek


________________________________________

-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --
 
Posts: 13448 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: October 14, 2005Report This Post
Alea iacta est
Picture of exx1976
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Solitar:
I suspect that most LEOs are familiar with only their issue firearms, the previously issued firearms, and maybe a few of their personal firearms
and they are not familiar enough with the other firearms they may encounter on a traffic stop to safely disarm, unload and safe those firearms.
and while they are two-handed fumbling with an unfamiliar firearm, are they aware of what other threats they face -- such as passing vehicles.

Nope. They should not be disarming a lawfully carrying civilian.


This.

SWMBO got pulled over on her way home from work for talking on her cell phone (I know, I know).

In WI we are not required to disclose, however, her SR9C was in the glove box because she's not allowed to carry at work, and she had forgotten to put it back in her purse (I know, I know). When asked for her registration and insurance, which was in the glove box, she had no choice but to disclose there was a loaded weapon in the glove box. She handed the officer her CCW card, at which point he asked her to exit the vehicle and walk to the rear. He then proceeded to climb into the vehicle, open the glove box, retrieve the weapon, and fumble with it for a solid 5 or 6 minutes because he couldn't figure out how to work it. For those unfamiliar, the safety on an SR9/SR9C is a slide lock, much like a 1911. He couldn't rack the slide to get the chambered round out.

After he finally figured it out, he exited the vehicle, made her stand there for 15 minutes while he ran her paperwork and wrote her a ticket. Then he put the weapon and the magazine in the back of her SUV, loose, closed it, and told her to drive away.

I was pissed, and immediately contacted one of my buddies on the local PD and gave him the guys name and shield.

He got back to me a few hours later, said that wasn't policy, the guy shouldn't have done that, and that he used to be a cop in Chicago, so he's afraid of guns. Said they'd be having a chat with him about it.

Mean time, I told SWMBO to make sure she puts it back in her purse before she even starts the car. She has one of those carry purses, with the separate compartment for the pistol, so unless she chooses to disclose, or her purse is confiscated, there's no chance of a LEO seeing it, even by accident while digging for her license/etc.




Every time you make a typo, the errorists win.
 
Posts: 14855 | Location: Location, Location  | Registered: April 09, 2012Report This Post
Dean of Law
Picture of heavyd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by toddt:
How Would you handle a situation simulare to this


I would do exactly what the officer said. I am not in the business of going to jail.


H. Dean Phillips
$99 Gun Trusts
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Posts: 6309 | Location: Georgia | Registered: December 02, 2005Report This Post
DYNAMITE
THE PASSES!
Picture of Solitar
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by exx1976:
When asked for her registration and insurance, which was in the glove box, she had no choice but to disclose there was a loaded weapon in the glove box. She handed the officer her CCW card, at which point he asked her to exit the vehicle and walk to the rear. He then proceeded to climb into the vehicle, open the glove box, retrieve the weapon, and fumble with it for a solid 5 or 6 minutes because he couldn't figure out how to work it.
Then his negligent discharge blew a hole in his kneecap!
How would that play out when he gets on the radio about an officer being shot?



The right to keep and bear arms, military arms, shall not be infringed -- period!
 
Posts: 10723 | Registered: May 19, 2006Report This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
Picture of KMitch200
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
quote:
Originally posted by Mainspring:
...the firearm is holstered and located at approximately 12:30 on my belt line....I would like him to take into consideration that it is pointed near my groin and/or femoral artery.


You're ok with carrying like that? Eek


I've been using that exact method of carry for 20 years or more. First with a J frame, then a P225 and the last 15 years with a G27.
It's not that big a deal if you have trigger finger discipline.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 1900 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Report This Post
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Picture of Charles_L
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quote:
Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
In CO we have the right to keep our mouth shut about carrying if we are not under arrest.

I have been pulled over more than a few times. I'm polite and professional. Never has there been a time that informing the officer would have benefited me. NONE. No reason at all.

Tell me you want an hour long traffic stop instead of a 20 minute one. Roll Eyes

I agree with the posts that the roadside is not the place to argue the point. Yes sir, no sir, thank you sir. Take it up with a lawyer or the judge later if necessary.

Here it's ridiculous if you do preemptively inform and the cop chooses to disarm you since you don't need a CCW permit to keep a pistol in your car glovebox perfectly legally. They'd never know even when they ran your DL if you didn't have a CCW. We do have to produce our permit if they ask. That happened to me after a traffic accident. It was down in Greenwood Village, the cop was running both of our DLs and asked to see my permit and wanted to know where my pistol was, although he never wanted to inspect or secure it himself.
 
Posts: 1265 | Registered: December 04, 2012Report This Post
Member
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I never speed, and if you believe that I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. In Kentucky if an officer runs your plates he will know you are a CCW holder. If you are carrying the law states you must inform him. If he does want to secure your weapon the CCW holder is not allowed to touch the weapon. The CCW holder is to inform the Officer that he the CCW holder is not allowed to touch his weapon.
 
Posts: 69 | Registered: August 10, 2011Report This Post
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Refusal will only create problems at the time.

Audio video recording would be a good idea (apps on smart phone is one option)

After the fact, use the Freedom of Information Act to discover if the officer ran the serial number of your weapon, which could be considered a violation of your Forth Amendment rights.

Also contact the officers agency and request a copy of the department's policy regarding interaction with legally armed citizens during routine traffic stops. File a complaint with the agency, if if it exists, the citizens overview committee.

I respect cops also, but only those that know and follow the laws, and their own departments policies and procedures. Freelancing and making up their own rules/laws on the fly is in no way acceptable.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: July 06, 2014Report This Post
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