OK, I'll bite.
I live in a jurisdiction that does not have large numbers of police officers who think anyone with a firearm is a criminal.
Backtalk is counter productive, you may want to approach the problem as a problem you share with the LEO.
Here is what I do: I hand the LEO the state mandated documents, concealed weapons permit, driver's license, and insurance card.
I tell the LEO I am armed, the pistol is on my right side, right near the seat belt release in an inside the waistband holster.
I have been stopped for license checks, insurance card checks, but no moving violations. NOT ONCE has any officer wanted to get possession of pistol.
At the end of the stop, I ask every one the same question: "If you wanted to get possession of the pistol, how can I hand it to you if my instructor told me never to touch my pistol while talking to a LEO?"
That is the problem, how is it possible to give him possession without touching the pistol. The LEO does not want to get shot, you don't want to touch the pistol or end up on the evening news. It would look real bad on the Dash Camera video.
You may want to consider leaving CT.
LEOs are not your enemy but giving them trouble may turn them into one.
|Yew got a spider |
on yo head
In CO we have the right to keep our mouth shut about carrying if we are not under arrest.
I have been pulled over more than a few times. I'm polite and professional. Never has there been a time that informing the officer would have benefited me. NONE. No reason at all.
Tell me you want an hour long traffic stop instead of a 20 minute one.
|I Deal In Lead|
We have no duty to inform here in Arizona either, unless the LEO asks.
I haven't been stopped in a long, long time but I won't tell unless he asks. I see no upside to telling him of my own free will.
|Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici|
A thread here last year implied experiences that letting them know proactively can lead to a much higher rate of receiving a warning rather than a citation.
Perhaps it says something about the holder as a citizen, perhaps some LEOs are sympathetic to pro 2A citizens, perhaps other reasons?
NRA Endowment Member
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
|Spread the Disease|
I never inform, unless legally required.
If specifically asked, I will not lie. If the officer wants me to hand it to him, I'll unload it first. I would ask if he would prefer to take it off me first.
-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --
Sadly, what I've noticed is (in Ohio) that most CCW permit holders are not carrying.
The rare ones that were carrying when I stop them have informed and I saw no need to take their weapon. I usually just ask, Oh, what kind? Cool. And that's the extent of talk about guns.
My brother's a perfect example. He has a CCW permit. But for five days out of the week, he doesn't carry it because he works in the Federal Building and they don't allow it. He takes transit in so he can't lock it up in his car when he gets to work.
Now years ago, we did arrest a CCW holder for being drunk (not while driving), disorderly and destroying someone's property. We took his gun and permit. Judge made us return it later. Less than a year later, he uses the same gun and murders a police officer that stopped him for loud music and driving drunk.
That's my only bad experience with a CCW holder.
May he rot in prison hell.
Not minority enough!
When I took my class for my permit here on the western slope, the legal part of the class was taught by the police chief from one of the small towns in the area. When he informed us that in CO we do not have to inform a LEO that we are carrying, someone asked if they should inform the LEO out of common courtesy. His words were "do what you want but if I were you and I was in Denver I would keep my mouth shut, those Denver cops live in their own little world."
My grandfather voted republican until the day he died, now he votes democrat.
I don't like the thought of doing that either. On several occasions I have had to give up my gun. I use holsters I can just remove from my person without removing the gun from it's holster. I caution the officer that the gun is loaded and to be careful. I then hand him the gun and holster or offer to let him retrieve it himself. IN Mi. you are required to tell the officer that you have a permit to carry as soon as possible. That fact pops up as he runs your plates but you still have tell him yourself.
What happened next?
If you are required to inform, or to inform if asked (e.g., Illinois), comply. Keep your hands on the wheel and ask the officer how he wants to proceed, and comply with his instructions. The key is, no surprises.
If you have to reach past the weapon to get your license, inform and ask. There is a high probability you will expose the weapon, with undesirable consequences. Likewise if the weapon and papers are in the same compartment.
The same is true if you are asked to exit the vehicle. That's usually an indicator something is up, and your halo is not showing.
I would not want to, and would avoid if at all possible, to touch the gun myself during disarming. I would rather spread it and get frisked and disarmed rather than hand the officer a loaded gun. My concern would be he's lost it, or is a criminal himself, and would want to commit murder, saying I tried to shoot him. Hiring good LEOs is not a 100% deal enough to bet my life on it. Hidden criminality, mental illness, psychotic breaks, it happens to some people, and LEOs are no different. Besides, if he's stupid enough to ask me to hand him my loaded gun, he's already off to begin with. I can't imagine any agency training their officers to disarm anyone that way. Just sounds crazy to me all the way around. LEO's can be or become criminals like anyone else, so why trust them when they're asking you to do something really stupid like that ?
NRA Range Safety Officer, Distinguished Expert Shotgun Pistol
Lover of the US Constitution
Wile E. Coyote School of Gunsmithing
2 Guns short of never having enough
|Step by step walk the thousand mile road|
If one citizen who works for the government can disarm another who doesn't work for the government, why can't the citizen disarm the government employee?
Nice is overrated
And people wonder why I carry a SIG P320
Death to Terrorists
|I earned my|
WA state doesn't require to inform... however if I'm carrying I just hand them my CPL along with my drivers license. I've never had a situation where they demanded I hand it over. They usually end up asking me what I'm carrying.
If I was asked... I probably WOULD drop the mag and rack the chamber empty before handing it to them. There was a time when this wouldn't have even entered my head but officers aren't what they used to be. I had buddy from the Phoenix area have to go through this. The deputy got pissed when he performed the unload process. He responded "I'm doing it for YOUR safety... and my own." He made it a point to hold the gun UP so the guy (had he not been a blithering imbecile) could see EXACTLY what he was doing. This guy has trained Minnesota and Arizona state troopers in firearms.
"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
- St. Augustine
I have been pulled over exactly once while carrying. Officer didnt ask, and I didnt offer. Handed my license, registration and insurance card over, got them back with a warning and took off. If I had been asked to exit the vehicle I would have informed the officer I was armed and asked how she wanted to proceed before stepping out.
|Little ray |
What does he care what your teacher told you? I understand the dilemma, but what your teacher told you is of no interest to the policeman at all.
To the OP, if he wants the gun, give it to him. If he wants it, I doubt there is much you can say to change his mind, and what are you going to do, fight him over it?
If taking it was improper, take that up with his bosses later. Not much good can come from arguing with him at moment.
I had a cop take a knife clipped to my pocket. He acted as if it was a real affront that I got out of the car (at his instruction) with a knife. I certainly didn't argue, and just chuckled to myself that had I been the sort to ruin his day, the knife would have been the least of his problems.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
I'd be VERY uncomfortable having someone I've never even met before pull my Glock from my IWB holster.
How do I know he practices safe handling and I won't get a ND in the butt?
"You can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say."
|His diet consists of black|
coffee, and sarcasm.
The thread in which it was posted has been pruned by now, but somebody at least purporting to be a LEO claimed he disarmed people, unloaded the gun, "ran" serial numbers and handed it back with the magazine out and the cartridges removed from the mag. Hopefully a real LEO will display more common sense than this. What are you supposed to do, hand him a loaded gun? And if you have a gun not commonly carried by LEOs, will he be familiar enough to know how to do this safely? But if not, realistically, I don't see much you can do at the time other than comply with his instructions.
Per handgunlaw.us, we don't have "duty to inform" in TN, but I'm told they get pretty upset about it if you don't. Your HCP is undoubtedly tied to your driver's license info and maybe even your license plate, since they both have the same number. I live in a three-state area where I can drive 30 miles north or south and wind up in VA or NC, respectively. About 50 miles will put me in KY. Of those, NC does have "must inform." The one time I've been pulled over while carrying was in Arizona in 2007 and disarming never came up.
In Oklahoma, by law, you are required to inform LEO of armed status upon first contact. By statute, they are prohibited from disarming you..
I feel like I'm knockin' on heaven's door.
Knock, knock, knockin' on heaven's door
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most do. ~Dale Carnegie [1888-1955] Teacher, Writer
Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out. ~ Originally posted by Boz
I think a cop that asks you to do this is new, stupid, or scared. (Perhaps all three.) I don't think I'd win an argument at the side of the road and talk him out of his request.
Officer I'd be happy to comply. I am concerned about unholstering while I sit - how do you suggest we proceed? May I stand up and unholster?
Or if the handgun is in a compartment: I will be glad to remove the handgun from the console. What do you want me to do with it after that? If I hand it to them I will say – it is load, please take care and do not muzzle sweep me.
I teach concealed carry classes and I try to remember to discuss this in class. I think you should anticipate the question and I think you should have a gameplan in your head of how you’ll handle the situation. That ensures you don’t point a loaded handgun at yourself or at the officer.
Oh, did I mention that I will get their badge number and name and will likely file a complaint?
Speak softly and carry a
Truer words were never spoken.
Denver is NOT Colorado.
Sadly some of the Denver suburb cities are also slipping behind the curtain.
As to informing, what they don't know won't turn a traffic stop into a four patrol car highway closure.
The right to keep and bear arms, military arms, shall not be infringed -- period!
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