I know this is not new, but it seems to be quietly becoming more invasive.
Has anyone tried shipping ammo or firearms lately?
I sold a 22lr rifle to a guy out of state, and HIS dealer wanted me to ship it through an FFL on my end. This is totally unnecessary as the ATF does not require it and neither Tenessee or Colorado require it.
I called around and after 4 dealers told me they did not provide that service (effectively they told me to ship it myself) 1 dealer said I HAD to ship from FFL to FFL or it was illegal? WTF!?! I said politely, I'm sorry, I don't think that is the law, in fact I know it's not the law as I have shipped a couple firearms in the past month and declared them at the counter per federal law". I told him FedEx, UPS, and the post office(long guns only) all ship firearms from individuals as long as they are going to an FFL or manufacturer, and he said "No, they don't". He again said the local shippers make up their own rules and the post office, UPS, and FedEx do not accept shipments of firearms from individuals. At this point I decided it was pointless to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man, so I just decided not to take my firearm to him for shipment.
My big problem with this is that a local shop that depends on firearms for a living, is telling people things that are just not true and effectively stifling interstate sales between individuals that would otherwise be legal. I'm guessing he is spreading lies so that he can collect the transfer fees and make more money for himself, when the transfer on the selling end is unnecessary.

Has anyone else seen this happening?

While you are correct that federal law does allow for an FFL to accept a firearm shipped to them from a non-FFL, FFLs run private businesses and as such can set their own policies.

It's important to keep in mind that FFLs may be subjected to some fairly stiff fines and prison time if convicted of certain violations. My own experience in dealing with FFLs has convinced me that some of the old-timers are:

a) Playing it "safe" by implementing company policies that are more stringent than what the law calls for to avoid any potential violations

or

b) Don't fully understand all the myriad of laws their business is governed by

or

c) Simply conducting business the way they always have, regardless of rule changes.

Also, I don't pretend to know individual state laws and it may be possible that some states place additional restrictions on shipping.

Personally, I don't fault FFLs so much as I fault some moronic elected officials for creating useless, senseless, laws that are often difficult to comprehend.

Actually, I've noticed just the opposite of what you are asserting with the greater frequency of internet transactions. In my experience, more FFLs are relaxing some requirements...perhaps hesitatingly, but relaxing nevertheless.

What does private business practices have to do with gun control?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What does private business practices have to do with gun control?

The private business practice is limiting the interstate trade in gun sales and thus causing a defacto gun control of interstate sales. Who says gun control always has to start at the government. There is always the possibility that some billionaire could purchase several gun or ammo manufacturers, then close up shop and melt down the equipment. The government does not need to be involved. In this example hopefully the free market will replace the dealers with other dealers willing to cooperate, but what of the towns with only 1 gun shop? The government can determine who gets new FFL's so if nobody comes forward to offer an alternate, or if the government approves no new shop, the shop policy has effectively become gun control.

I guess I'm just surprised that a gun shop told a customer on the phone (me) that it was illegal for me to ship a firearm, when I had shipped 3 in the past month.

My local FFL will not accept shipments from private individuals either. Just a CYA thing. I can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were in his shoes.

quote:

Originally posted by evlgreg:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
What does private business practices have to do with gun control?

The private business practice is limiting the interstate trade in gun sales and thus causing a defacto gun control of interstate sales. Who says gun control always has to start at the government. There is always the possibility that some billionaire could purchase several gun or ammo manufacturers, then close up shop and melt down the equipment. The government does not need to be involved. In this example hopefully the free market will replace the dealers with other dealers willing to cooperate, but what of the towns with only 1 gun shop? The government can determine who gets new FFL's so if nobody comes forward to offer an alternate, or if the government approves no new shop, the shop policy has effectively become gun control.

I guess I'm just surprised that a gun shop told a customer on the phone (me) that it was illegal for me to ship a firearm, when I had shipped 3 in the past month.

Hardly the same. One limits freedom, the other sets policy that only hurts their business. Them being an uneducated dumbass only hurts themselves. And free enterprise being what it is, being uneducated can cost a premuim. And I have no sympathy.

I just shipped a handgun via FedEX on Friday.It was as painless as could be.I dont have an FFL,all I needed was a copy of the FFL it was being shipped to.

quote:

Originally posted by RGF:
My local FFL will not accept shipments from private individuals either. Just a CYA thing. I can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were in his shoes.

Mine will accept shipments as long as a copy of the shippers drivers license is included.

My local FFL dealer has handled numerous transfers for me. Every time that he does so I consider it to be a favor, and I abide by his rules. He will not accept shipments from non-FFL holders because of the danger of receiving stolen firearms.

It would be pretty simple to ship a stolen firearm with a bogus name, return address, etc, thereby unloading a hot piece and getting paid for it.

My FFL dealer is protecting himself as well as me with this policy. I appreciate it.

I shipped the firearm in question today via the US Post office. They did not even bat an eye. They barely glanced at the copy of the FFL and asked me no other questions. The buyer found a different FFL to receive the firearm.

Do criminals really list and sell stolen guns on gunbroker? Wouldn't they run the risk of having the victim find his missing gun and leading the police to the thief?

I used to manage a gun store and while unknowingly receiving a stolen firearm is a concern, it never happened to us.

With that said...we would take firearm shipments from individuals for transfer. In the four years that I worked there we received three shotguns that had "custom" barrels under 18 inches long. One guy said he was shipping a semi-auto police shotgun...it was a class 3 street sweeper he never registered with BATF under the amnesty program for that weapon.

We got a semi-auto Uzi that had a real full auto SBR barrel with it...never mind that it won't function...the obvious intent is there. And we got a Colt AR-15 with M-16 parts installed (poorly) and a selector switch installed.....

These are the things you receive from non-ffl's. Oh...and a few guns were sent in by convicted felons (we always checked). I would notify the local ATF guy. He would come confiscate the weapon. The customer on our end was mad...the shipper was mad. ATF had to have conversations with them...some were prosecuted.

This is why it's not a good idea to take firearms form non ffl's